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SE/30 soft power

techknight

Well-known member
I know in system 7.5.3 there is an app thats in the apple menu items, that says shutdown.

I wonder if you could just compile a new app and just replace the one in the apple menu items.

 

bbraun

Well-known member
A couple of additional thoughts:

I'm still somewhat surprised the SE/30 Finder Shutdown doesn't toggle the line, but if the PDS slot maintains 5V, I guess that's not totally shocking. I'm not entirely sure that pin is useful to an add-on card anyway, since hard power offs were a fact of life... So maybe the docs are just wrong in this regard. Or reflected original intent that didn't pan out.

As I think about it, the soft power gestalt probably only matters for preventing systems with soft poweroff from powering off rather than the inverse. The problem would be, not all machines soft power off the same way (not all machines even have the 2nd VIA that the SE/30, IIx have), so just claiming it has soft power doesn't really tell it how to soft poweroff. There's something else somewhere that knows how to soft power off a particular machine. This probably isn't determined by shutdown-time evaluation of the machine gestalts, if it was, the Wish I Were app would change your poweroff behavior, which could potentially be detrimental considering how hardware specific the shutdown is.

So anyway, there's apparently a bunch more stuff involved with the shutdown process. I'll try to read more to understand how it determines the shutdown procedure for a specific machine. Ideally, convincing the shutdown procedure to use the IIx's shutdown instead of the SE/30's seems like a good idea. Short of that, being able to hook in to the process at a safe point would work(hopefully making sure any existing block cache is flushed, etc. before actually toggling power).

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
As a side note: I REALLY like your photo work, z!

12mm on an M-8, NICE! :approve: I've only got the (Rangefinder Version) of the old Canon 19mm for my M-3.

Just how lovely is that Leica? :?:

As a somewhat more relevant side note: I see you've got a Mac II and a Mac IIx from your sig. Is there any chance you could run SlotInfo from the Gauge Series to let me know if anything shows up in PseudoSlot $00 as it does on my IIfx and IIsi?

The IIfx reports: Macintosh II Built-In Video

fullhouse3.jpg.c910c31defb86bafa7776f4bcf90927c.jpg


The IIsi reports: Macintosh A Built-In Video in the TattleTech NuBus/PDS report.

The SE/30 should report Video at $0E according to bbraun's info.

When the II and IIx architectures were laid out, there were plenty of slots for video and probably no plan to include it a built-in feature.

When the IIcx, and its AIO sibling, the SE/30 were developed and released together, built-in video was hacked onto the Mac II's NuBus/Pseudoslot architecture for the very first time. Later it was refined as the Vampire Video of the IIci and IIsi and persisted as the IIfx's phantom Macintosh II Built-In Video.

It would be great if you could check out the Macs you have for exploring these developments.

As for the rest . . . methinks it's time to start another PseudoSlot/DeclROM spelunking topic . . .

 

bbraun

Well-known member
Ok, I've read over the Shutdown Manager chapter, and think I have a solution.

This PowerOff Init registers a function with the shutdown manager to run before power off. Theoretically, this gets run after all applications have been quit, all drivers notified of shutdown, and all volumes unmounted, which *should* be safe to power off the machine. Or at least as safe as the Shutdown Manager interface provides. The function runs the same code the PowerOff app did, setting the direction on the poweroff bit, and then setting it to 0.

I don't really have a great way to test this, but the testing I did was installed the SoftPower init from earlier on my IIx, and made sure it did not shutdown with that init installed. Then installed this init, and shutdown, and it powered off successfully.

Hopefully, this should get that line toggled for you on finder shutdown.

 

bbraun

Well-known member
Well, this doesn't necessarily apply to the IIsi, since the IIsi's video seems to kinda sorta replace the functions of the 2nd VIA we're using in the SE/30 to soft power off. As I understand it, the IIsi's video chip provides some level of emulation of the 2nd VIA, but it's not used for soft power off.

The SE/30, IIx, and II used bit banging of the VIAs to do ADB, but the IIsi had a separate ADB controller. According to the IIsi dev notes, it looks like the ADB controller is what controls soft power off in the IIsi:

The power off function is controlled by software. Using the menu command “Shutdown” causes software to send a special command that enables the ADB microcontroller to pull PFW low, causing a power supply shutdown. This gives the Macintosh IIsi computer sufficient time to complete pending activity before AC power is removed.
So, "maybe" on the IIsi soft poweroff, but this INIT unfortunately won't help...

 

zuiko21

Well-known member
YEAH!!! The Power Off INIT works great! :cool: It allows the standard shutdown command to toggle the PB2 line, as I needed for my soft power box -- works fine on both stock ROM and (ahem, ahem) upgraded clean ROM... thanks a BUNCH! ;)

FWIW, I think the pin is not configured as output by default on the IIx either. I needed to set the direction otherwise the IIx wouldn't power off. This might be a safety mechanism to prevent accidental bugs that might write to that address from hard powering off the machine.
That makes much more sense, yes. Fortunately, the sophisticated Custom Shutdown Procedures of the Shutdown Manager came to the rescue!

12mm on an M-8, NICE!
Yeah, it makes a great super-wide for the M8 (16mm equiv.) On film, it's just insane }:)
The M8 is not as smooth as your M3 (I got an M2 too) but it's a great tool. You end up taking much less pictures with it than any other digicam, but better ones.

Glad you like my pics. I can always hide behind the I'm just a collector, I was only exercising the shutter cliché :D

I see you've got a Mac II and a Mac IIx from your sig. Is there any chance you could run SlotInfo from the Gauge Series to let me know if anything shows up in PseudoSlot $00
Sure! I'm doing that on the IIx because the II is being recapped...

IIx-slots.gifExtra info on it says nothing more.

But with, ahem, a custom IIci ROM I get a slot 0 similar to yours. There is some extra info about it:

IIx-512K.gif

BTW, these captures were taken on the IIx, transferred via floppy to the SE/30, then emailed as attachments to the MacMini where I'm writing this, for easier (read: faster) editing ;)

So I ought to be able to get my IIsi to act like a IIsi with an ATX transplant?
Sure! Both the IIsi and the ATX are soft-power capable, it's just a matter of "translating" the PFW line from the Mac to the PS_ON signal required by the PSU. A simple transistor as inverter will do. Here's my proof of concept:

One end of the resistor is hooked at the +5 TRKL line, simulating the PFW signal. When I put the other end of the resistor in contact with the transistor base, the PSU fires up. As soon as the base is disconnected, the PSU shuts down.

At your side of the pond, you're more likely to use a 2N3904 or similar transistor, instead of the BC547 I had at hand... then your collector & emitter connections will be reversed!

That simple circuit is all that is needed for any soft-power capable vintage Macintosh to use the feature with an ATX PSU. The problem with compacts and other non-soft-power enabled Macs is that they don't generate the PFW signal, thus our hassle with the VIA, INITs etc. But as long as you manage to get a PFW signal, this very same simple transistor circuit will switch the ATX accordingly.

Now, as soon as I get some time, I'll prototype a bit on the switching box and then build it!

THANKS A LOT TO ALL!!! ;D

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Thanks for all the info, especially the elegant demo unit!

12mm on an M-8, NICE!
Yeah, it makes a great super-wide for the M8 (16mm equiv.) On film, it's just insane }:)
The M8 is not as smooth as your M3 (I got an M2 too) but it's a great tool. You end up taking much less pictures with it than any other digicam, but better ones.

Glad you like my pics. I can always hide behind the I'm just a collector, I was only exercising the shutter cliché :D
Dang! I thought the M8 was full frame. :-/ I'm waiting for a full frame Digital Back for my Nikon F/F-36 Motor Drive/BatPack Combo. Haven't googled for it in a year or so, gotta do that, but if nobody makes one I'll have to engineer something on the order of a Reversed-Speed Magny 4x5 Polaroid back mod to the F-36 chassis. That'd actually be VERY [8D] in that reducing the 35mm lens field to a smaller CCD field forma,t there'd actually be a stop or more so GAIN . . .

. . . as opposed to the Speed Magny's 4 aperture stop LOSS. }:)

I haven't bought any of the new RF SuperWides because I'd need to decide between my SP and my M-3 for uber-cam status. }:)

 

techknight

Well-known member
To add to this:

I have been studying the schematic of the original Sony power supply. I might be able to figure out how to make it standby-start. :)

So just a couple modifications of the power supply, and a standby control IC. (flip-flop or whatever, for me I am going to use a MCU), and then tap off of the VIA2 and ADB power button signals.

There is a small switching circuit inside the power supply that kick starts the SMPS, then the SMPS takes over, using the 12v sweep supply to power the main switching IC.

So, I can break the junction point at D268, and D263. So, when i open the relay, this well effectively shut down the entire power supply. But, it will still leave the IC151 micro-SMPS circuit running. Ill use this circuit to power the standby controller, and the relay.

Once the relay clicks on, voltage from the micro-SMPS will pass back over through D263, fire up the SMPS, and D268 will begin to feed 12v and take over powering the circuit, and relay. thus virtually no added load on the micro-SMPS except at switch-on.

Again, Black art on a power supply. NO PROBLEM :)

Aztec supply is different, so i would have to take a different approach. Probably the standby VCC to the PWM control IC.

 

techknight

Well-known member
Here is my Mac SE/30 Sony power supply modification proposal.

Ill explain a bit more when I rip mine apart for testing.

Sorry, no copyright intended, i meant copyleft. This is not Black Art either, its Red Art. :cool:

SE Power Supply (Sony_).gif

 

techknight

Well-known member
Here is an alternative modification proposal, and slightly easier.

Pitfall: I cannot guarantee the regulation circuits as they will continue to have power during standby, So upon restart, an overshoot condition could occur before the power supply quickly recovers and stabilizes. This is why I chose the relay method cutting the entire 12V supply to the oscillator and control circuitry.

SE Power Supply (Sony_).gif

 

techknight

Well-known member
Oh, also, if you have a bad switching IC MB3759, It would be helpful to note you can replace this IC with your off-the-shelf common TL494 which is used in just about everything and is still being produced.

TL494 is a drop in replacement.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Re: the ADB signal . . .

-- quite understandable since the SE/30 has no use for it. Then I searched for a point in the mobo directly connected to VIA2's PB2, and I found it. The only remaining thing would be taking it outside -- pin 5 of the external floppy connector is unused and not connected, so it seems quite suitable for the task.
I was reading your post in 68k Soft/Hard 68k Power and ATX conversions . . . and remembered something interesting:

The PB100 somehow has the ADB signal present on its Power Connector! I remember thinking how cool that might be for creating a rudimentary single plug Docking Station for BabyPB. At the time I was using it at my computer workstation (ergonomically correct) in the big closet I'd built next to the dining room table in our NYC co-op apartment.

Since the standard 100 series wall wart is a two is a simple two contact power plug, there must be a way to simply pipe the ADB signal to one or the other of these wires to get it into you external box. Such a circuit inside the SE/30 would prune back the cable monster a bit.

_________________________________________________________________________________

On another note: check out the new developments in Switching Mac PSU's @$$tBits + ATX = ?????

I may not have been reading your OP correctly, but I've sourced a 250W ITX PSU that fits inside the IIsi PSU's sheet metal. IIRC, this is about the same size as your SE/30's PSU if not exactly the same PSU? Maybe you can stuff your proposed external box inside your SE/30?

 
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