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Macpaint and quickdraw source code posted

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
Wow. Just ... wow.

This is big news, in two senses: firstly, considering how anal Apple have always been about sourcecode, the fact that they have released anything is great news, and hopefully the start of something.

Second, having access to the original source for Quickdraw surely opens up some interesting possibilities.

QuickDraw is the Macintosh library for creating bit-mapped graphics / It consists of a total of 17,101 lines in 36 files, all written in assembler language for the 68000./

Bill was as concerned with whether human readers would understand the code as he was with what the computer would do with it. / "I'm a firm believer that the best way to prevent bugs is to make it so that you can read through the code and understand exactly what it's doing… "
 

Mac128

Well-known member
Wow doesn't even begin to describe this Bunsen – "with the permission of Apple" ... Really!? Naw couldn't be. What's in it for Apple? Wouldn't someone have had to ask Steve? I can only imagine his eyes glaze over the instant he hears words like "MacPaint", or "Atkinson", or "history". How would anyone even get his ear to make such a request, much less have it granted?

If the code has been released, it means it can be compiled into working software. Doesn't this mean it is in the public domain, for all practical purposes (aside from commercial sale)? What's next? Could Apple really be softening its position on vintage software, now that it has been rendered utterly moot thanks to OS X and iOS?

 

Mac128

Well-known member
Note: This material is Copyright ©1984 Apple Inc. and is made available only for non-commercial use.
Ah, missed that (or maybe I just didn't want to see it :beige: ). But that's a technicality. For all practical purposes it is, which is why Apple so actively prevented the obsolete System and application software from being freely distributed. It's not like anyone is going to use MacPaint, its code or any part of it for any serious commercial venture. Certainly the sale of the code, compiled or otherwise would be illegal. But freely distributed code and/or software for "non-commercial" uses, is pretty much all any of us have ever wanted with pre-System 7 software, and these days, pre-OS 8.1. "non-commercial use" allows for a wide array of use, including modifying it and freely sharing it with colleagues on forums like this. And once that cat is out of the bag, how do you put it back in?

I mean besides actually selling the software, what is a "commercial use"? Using it to design floor-plans for your interior design firm? Make kitsch digital art for sale on the internet? And who is to say you made it from that particular code and not an original copy of the application you bought entitling you to use it for "commercial" purposes? Considering it is code, I suppose the limitation is aimed directly at someone who might modify it or include bits of it in their own commercial software, but seriously, how practical would that be today with all the open source alternatives? Anyway, not to start a debate about copyright, it is clearly protected. But unlike a decade ago, it is being freely distributed for just about anything that's practical to do with it in 2010. Let's hope for more ...

I'm still just slack-jawed by the whole revelation.

EDIT: Ahhhhhhhhh .... here's the background story from Bloomberg/Buisness Week.

And here's the most interesting quote:

What you’ll find are actually two files, one containing the source code of MacPaint itself, the other containing QuickDraw, which Hertzfeld calls “the single most important component of the original Macintosh technology.” It was a key enabling technology not only for MacPaint but for the entire Mac interface, and by itself amounts to about one-third of the source code for the original Macintosh operating system, Hertfeld said.
 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
But that's a technicality.
Also known as - the law.

freely distributed code and/or software for "non-commercial" uses, is pretty much all any of us have ever wanted with pre-System 7 software / "non-commercial use" allows for a wide array of use
Agreed.

This is the money quote from that article, to me:

Don Knuth called MacPaint “the best program ever written.”
Also:

Finally / Hertzfeld saw / Steve Jobs, and told him of the stalled request for the source code. Within 24 hours, Jobs asked Apple’s new general counsel / to approve it.
So it was El Steevo who let the cat out of the bag in the end o_O

 

Scott Baret

Well-known member
Any word on whether or not Bill Atkinson had any input in the MacPaint code being released? Of all the old Mac designers he was probably my favorite, especially since he did so much yet never gets the recognition of the other members of that team.

Has anyone looked at this code yet? If so, what programs are you folks using?

 

Anonymous Freak

Well-known member
Well, Andy Hertzfeld has pushed for years for Apple to open up the source, when someone whose name escapes me asked for it to do a class on programming.

Andy contacted BIll Atkinson, who found a copy of the source. Andy then tried to get it donated to Computer History Museum, going through Apple legal.

That's the last I had heard, that Andy had been trying.

According to one report on this, Andy went through multiple Apple legal people before finally cornering Jobs at some event earlier this year. He brought it up to Jobs, and according to Andy, Jobs immediately called up the head of Apple Legal and said "do it". It just took awhile.

So this was done with full knowledge of Steve Jobs.

As for "public domain". There is a very definite difference between "available" and "public domain".

The source code for Linux is "available to anyone", it is not "public domain".

Public Domain has a very specific meaning. It means that *NOBODY* holds any legal rights to it. For example, very old books like Alice in Wonderland, slightly more recent works whose creators didn't register the copyright properly (under older copyright laws, you had to re-register after only a few years, or the work fell into the public domain,) such as the original 1960 "Little Shop of Horrors", and 1959's cult-classic "Plan 9 From Outer Space"; along with works created by the U.S. Government. (So photographs taken by U.S. government employees as part of their job are automatically in the public domain; such as astronauts in space.)

That means that *ANYONE* can do *ANYTHING* with the work they want. (Within the normal bounds of legality of course.) Anyone can take Little Shop of Horrors, re-edit it, and sell it. Any company can take photos of the Earth taken by astronauts and use it in their advertising. No permission needed. That's what "Public Domain" means.

On the other hand, you have things that are released to the public, but not placed into the public domain. These are licensed. The creator still maintains copyright on it, they just choose to allow much more use than is considered "normal". The source code for Linux, for example, is actually fairly restrictive. You CAN'T do just anything with it. You must share any changes you make. Many photos you find on Flickr are tagged "CC-BY-NC", which means that the copyright holder says you can use it, but you have to make sure to give them proper attribution, and you can't use it for commercial purposes. (i.e. you can't sell something with that photo, you can't use it in your advertising, etc.) What apple has done is more like this last one. They say "here it is! Play with it, learn from it, just don't try to re-sell it."

So someone could try to recompile it for OS X and give it away for free. But they can't try to sell it.

 

Mac128

Well-known member
According to one report on this
I posted the link to the Bloomberg/Business Week article above that details the "official" story.

So someone could try to recompile it for OS X and give it away for free. But they can't try to sell it.
I believe that's what I said, but in so many fewer words. :beige:

 

Paralel

Well-known member
I never understand companies that are so reluctant to release source code for software/OS that haven't been used in a significant number of production systems for quite some time. What compelling reason could they have for not releasing it?

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
Surely the source for A/UX is right around the corner!
*snicker* I wouldn't hold my breath. Basically any commercial UNIX (With an emphasis on anything remotely based on System V) from the 80's is going to be confined to legal purgatory forever and ever and ever.

(Or at least until the associated copyrights have indisputably lapsed a century or so from now, depending on whether Congress decides to extend it *again*.)

Frankly I don't even trust OpenSolaris, and if *anyone* had sufficient rights to completely open-source a System V Unix it was Sun. (God rest their souls.) But even they had to negotiate with other rights holders and remove a few things from the open-sourced product to do it.

 

Anonymous Freak

Well-known member
Well, it has just been conclusively decided in court that Novell owns the code to "UNIX". So in theory, Novell could release it, which opens Apple up to release A/UX. (But, to paraphrase you, "as if".)

 

ChristTrekker

Well-known member
*snicker* I wouldn't hold my breath. Basically any commercial UNIX (With an emphasis on anything remotely based on System V) from the 80's is going to be confined to legal purgatory forever and ever and ever.
There was some *ahem* small amount of sarcasm/cynicism in my post. :)

Actually, I wouldn't even care so much about the Unix layer. Let them keep that locked up. If they released just the Sys7 environment, and the "glue" code that made it run atop Unix, that would be great.

 

Scott Baret

Well-known member
I think some of it has to do with portions of the code not being owned by a particular company or the original source of a code being uncertain.

Let's use Word 5.1 as an example. I know not all of the code in Word 5.1 was developed by Microsoft. They would need permission from the other companies involved to release it free of charge even if Microsoft was OK with releasing their portion of 5.1 for free. This may be part of the holdup with some Mac products as well. MacDraw II and MacWrite II both had third party utilities included in the package and I'm pretty sure most later versions of the Mac OS did too. Also, the only fonts available on Apple's page are their four fonts, not the additional ones that came with the LaserWriters.

Lost ownership is another issue. I remember hearing once that this is the reason we may never see the original Oregon Trail and Number Munchers released for free. With SimCity, for example, we know who owns the code--Maxis was purchased by EA and many of the developers remain in contact with today's projects. This is how EA was able to release SimCity for the OLPC project. Oregon Trail and Number Munchers were both MECC products. There were countless buyouts here and lots of things were lost in the shuffle (I actually wrote to one of the Oregon Trail II team members, who was on board for many other MECC products, about some material from the game and he said lots of the original material that was researched for the game, including primary source documents from private families, was lost during the buyouts). If they can lose personal trail diaries from the 1840s and 1850s, losing copyright documents would be no problem whatsoever.

Of course, it's probably possible to look this stuff up in some sort of government-run database, but companies seem reluctant to do that for whatever reason. If the buyouts are documented, the rights holders should be easy enough to track down, although "lost ownership" will still be brought up all the time.

Personally, I think the copyright terms on software should be shortened. 75+ years is fine for books, movies, and music, since they don't become obsolete in two years (unless we're talking about atlases, travel books, computer books, and so forth). For computers, I'd say 15 years would be a good amount of time--most software is out of use by then and having older software in the public domain would help many (historians, people who cannot afford new software, schools, churches, nursing homes). If a company wanted to keep something copyrighted longer (say Microsoft with XP if it was still supported past that date), they could apply for a 5 year extension. There would be no limit for these extensions--if someone wanted a 75 year copyright, they would just have to apply for the extension. Additionally, if this law were to be enacted today, a provision would have to be that a work created prior to this date in 1995 would enter the public domain unless a rights holder stated otherwise, in which case it would be granted the 5 year extension.

This is just a dream for now, but I'm thinking of talking about it with my local congressman to see if it goes anywhere. For now, I'll keep purchasing new copies of Word 5.1 whenever I need to install it on an additional Mac.

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
Of course, the real question is, is anyone going to do anything with this code?
Sure, as posted above, it's going to be used in programming classes as an example of elegant coding for constrained systems. If you mean develop something from it/with it/for it ... that'd be up to us loonies, wouldn't it?

 

heebiejeebies

Well-known member
It's probably more a case of Steve wanting Andy to bugger off and stop hassling him about it - I doubt Apple will suddenly start releasing the back catalogue. (They're not Apple records or anything...)

Someone on here will now compile this for OSX. That's a direct order.

Don Knuth called MacPaint “the best program ever written.”
Then he's an idiot...sheesh... ::)

 
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