Latest OS X to format HFS+ non-journaled

[MikeatOSX]

Hi,

I know hard disks can be formatted HFS+ non-journaled in Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger. But what is the latest version of OS X which can do this?

I need it to get read AND WRITE access on a Linux system.

see:

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/7609/what-are-the-differences-between-journaling-hfs-and-non-journaling-hfs

Thanks

 

[TarableCode]

You should be able to do it on the command line using diskutil in Sierra:

sudo diskutil partitionDisk /dev/disk2 APM HFS+ XFer 0b

 

[MikeatOSX]

ok, thanks.

But command line is somewhat retro.

 

[tsundoku]

ok, thanks.

But command line is somewhat retro.

what

 

[TheWhiteFalcon]

You're using Linux and you think the CLI is 'retro'?

 

[Unknown_K]

It is if you never used Linux a decade ago (and are not a sysadmin kind of user). Welcome to the GUI bloat.

 

[MikeatOSX]

You're using Linux and you think the CLI is 'retro'?

I used CLI until 1992 (AmigaDOS) very intensively and was really good in it. But then I bought my first Mac (SE/30) and was very happy with all GUI applications.I never owned a PC, but "had to use" MsDOS sometimes and with OS X the Command Line came back, but I use it very very rare, if there is no other way.

"Unfortunatelly" I'm using a Linux satellite box, which is a really great product even though it uses Linux.

I like to record movies on an external hard disks and Linux is able to WRITE on HFS+ (non-journaled) formatted hard disks. So my question was, which is the latest Mac OS X to format HFS+ (non-journaled) hard disks. I did it with Tiger and this worked for me.

My personal opinion about CLI is "retro", as I really needed it 25 years ago. To be honest, CLI is a replacement for missing apps.

In example, it would be very boring to use CLI on iPhones every time.

 

[IPalindromeI]

oof ouch owie, my bones

The CLI is a fundamentally /different/ paradigm. It's not better, it's not worse; it's better at different things. Try composing a set of commands (hint: |) or scripting repetitive work (hint: sh) or trying to bring up a remote server (hint: SSH) - it's best at those tasks. It's not retro; it just stuck around because it's still very useful.

HFS+ for external disks is madness if you have ANY machine that isn't a Mac.

 

[MikeatOSX]

HFS+ for external disks is madness if you have ANY machine that isn't a Mac.

HFS+ (non-journaled) works fine with my dm900 uHD satellite box. Files can be written from its Linux to the external HFS+ (non-journaled !) Mac hard disk. The internal hard disk of the satellite box is formatted in EXT4 as intended.

BTW: not only CLI is retro, mouse & track-/touchpad will be retro soon.

Touch & speech is up to date, maybe thoughts will control future computers.

Sad to say: although this forum is for old (retro...) Macs, nobody can answer my question in the first post.

 

[Gorgonops]

Sad to say: although this forum is for old (retro...) Macs, nobody can answer my question in the first post.

The question of how to format the disk on any recent version of OS X has been answered. Are you basically refusing to do it any way other than a GUI, even if it means having to install some old version of OS X that hasn't removed the no-journaling option from the disk utility menu?

If this thread is correct the last OS to have the GUI option for it was Snow Leopard.

EDIT: You can also try this with a disk you already formatted, but it doesn't seem to work for me in Sierra so, well, no idea where that broke.

Anyway, CLIs are going to be with us for a long, long time, retro or not. If you're only comfortable poking little pictures then you'd be better off sourcing all your toys from one vendor that uniformly protects you from all the awkward poky bits under the surface.

 

[MikeatOSX]

If you're only comfortable poking little pictures

Yes, yes and yes! This was the reason I switched to Macintosh computers in 1992. These computers were really user friendly!

CLI computers are faraway from user friendlyness and nowadays only used by a small crowd of computer users.

Using computers should not be a science for few people but fun and satisfaction for many people.

Back in the 1980's years I had to work on Unix computers and people around me looked at me as an alien.

Nowadays people like these "little pictures" on their iPhones and nobody thinks to be an alien.

 

[TarableCode]

Maybe the Snow Leopard version of Disk Utility will run under Sierra?

 

[Gorgonops]

CLI computers are faraway from user friendlyness and nowadays only used by a small crowd of computer users.

Using computers should not be a science for few people but fun and satisfaction for many people.

Maybe some people get fun and satisfaction out of knowing how to simply *tell* a computer to do something in a few words, rather than have to putter around looking for the endless series of clicky-boxes? Clearly you haven't been paying attention if you think CLI's are even remotely a "dying" technology. Microsoft has been going out of their way in recent years to (nearly) as-fully-enable Windows to be driven vi CLI (and API's) as UNIX systems simply because developers are demanding it.

Anyway, it's obvious why Apple deprecated this as a GUI option: in their eyes the only legitimate reason not to use journaling on an HFS+ filesystem is if it's being used with OS 9, and OS 9 was "officially dead" for nine years when Lion came out. In the world of clicky-pictures and menus more options means more opportunities for people to make bad choices so it's completely defensible that they'd get rid of it. (Remember, Apple *doesn't care*, period, about interoperability, so being able to format an HFS+ drive for you to share with Linux is simply not a use case they will *ever* care about. If you insist on wanting to plug your storage into something other than a Mac they consider supporting FAT32 and ExFAT good enough.) Therefore if you're going to choose to live in their world you either need to accept that you're not allowed to color outside the lines, or that if you're going to persist on doing so you'll have to learn a few "secret codes". IE, learn how to go to the CLI.

Or if you really insist, you could use Linux's GUI to format your disk.

 

[TheWhiteFalcon]

Maybe the Snow Leopard version of Disk Utility will run under Sierra?

Highly unlikely. Heck, there’s a good chance that DU in Snow Leopard is still a PPC app.

 

[MikeatOSX]

so you'll have to learn a few "secret codes". IE, learn how to go to the CLI.

I suppose you didn't really read my posts, as I wrote that I "had to" work with Unix und "liked to" play with AmigaDOS.

But that's gone and the times changed. No time & need to learn old stuff anymore. 

I like to play with System 6 to Mac OS 9 computers. And that's the reason I like this 68kMLA forum.

The good news:

THE SOLUTION

Your links were really great and so I installed Snow Leopard Server on a Virtual Machine.

Here the results:

Snow Leopard 10.6 - Disk Utility v11.5.2 (intel, not PPC): 

can format HFS+ non-journaled disks and can disable Journaling on an already formatted disk when holding down the Option (Alt) key within the menu.

Yosemite 10.10 - Disk Utility v13 (I use a hacked DU v13 in El Capitan...):

cannot format HFS+ non-journaled disks but can disable Journaling on an already formatted disk when holding down the Option (Alt) key within the menu.

"Disable Journaling" can be used on a disk with files on it without deleting them. 

Great to format hard disks etc. for use on Mac OS 8.1 to 9.2.2.

I use it now on an external 2TB hard disk to get read AND write access on a Linux OS for files exchange (USB 3.0).

Don‘t use larger HFS+ non-journaled disks with Linux!

El Capitan 10.11 - Disk Utility v15:

cannot format HFS+ non-journaled disks and cannot disable Journaling.

Thanks!

 

[Gorgonops]

But that's gone and the times changed. No time & need to learn old stuff anymore. 

(...)

Your links were really great and so I installed Snow Leopard Server on a Virtual Machine.

So your choices were to either pop open a terminal window and type a simple command, which would have taken all of ten seconds, or to waste however long installing an obsolete version of OS X in a virtual machine just so you can press a button. Yeah, that's totally not ridiculous or anything.

BTW, it looks like based on the man page the command line utility also still supports disabling a journal on an existing format in Sierra.

 

[Cory5412]

This device is new enough that it might work with something like exFAT or extremely large FAT32 disks, which Mac OS X can format easily, in Disk Utility.

It would be interesting to see if you can move recordings to one of those devices or record onto it, for easy compatibility with systems that use those formats. Long term, Apple could remove the underlying commands that the old Disk Utility uses to do this from Mac OS X. Idly -- is this confirmed to work in High Sierra?

Obviously non-journaled HFS+ is, as with exFAT and regular FAT, not a very great format for long term data storage, if you're archiving/hoarding this stuff you will of course want to put it on your LTFS tapes or your Windows servers with NTFS/ReFS disks or your unix server with ZFS on it.

 

[MikeatOSX]

This solution feeds my needs very well. Launching the hacked Disk Utility v13 and disabling Journaling is as fast as executing a Terminal command and I'm sure not unintentionally deleting the wrong disk.

BTW: this solution is a replacement for a dead external hard disk, which was formatted with EXT4.

And yes, this HFS+ disk is not used to store data permanently. I have backups, of course.

I'm amazed to find so many hardcore Linux fans in a Mac forum.

 

[TheWhiteFalcon]

I was using the Terminal on a Mac just last night, so...