General G3/G4 ZIF upgrade questions

[cobalt60]

Looking into purchasing a ZIF upgrade or 2 for overclocking testing, but finding caveats with various upgrades out there.

The Sonnet Encore G4 ZIFs apparently auto-configure their multiplier, and ignore any jumper settings. Is there a way to override this? I'd rather use the jumpers on my board.

I've seen PowerLogix with a dial. Does anyone have the manual for this? Can this dial be over-ridden, or is there a setting on it that will allow the module to respect jumper settings?

 

[Phipli]

The Sonnet Encore G4 ZIFs apparently auto-configure their multiplier, and ignore any jumper settings. Is there a way to override this? I'd rather use the jumpers on my board.

If there is I'm not aware of it, but it would most likely be by hacking the driver, if the system is similar to the L2, NuBus PDS and "PCI" cards.

 

[Phipli]

I've seen PowerLogix with a dial. Does anyone have the manual for this? Can this dial be over-ridden, or is there a setting on it that will allow the module to respect jumper settings?

The configuration of dials and dip switches depends on the model I think, but there are manuals archived online. Pick the card you're interested in and have a search. Archive.org can help. The old xlr8yourmac site had loads of info on various cards.

Accelerate Your Mac! CPU Upgrade Reviews and Related Articles

Macintosh CPU Upgrade reviews - Core 2 Duo, G4, G3 and 604 CPU upgrade reviews and related articles

web.archive.org

 

[cobalt60]

Also, how does the auto-configure on the Sonnet actually work? I think those G4s had a max multiplier of 9x. Say it's a 500MHz Sonnet. If I put it in a 50MHz bus machine, guessing it will auto-configure to 450MHz (9x). If I put it in a 60MHz bus, guessing it would auto-configure to 480MHz (8x). A 66MHz to 500MHz (7.5x)

Now here's where my examples get mildly interesting; what if I put it in a 70MHz bus machine? Will it tell itself that 525MHz is too fast, and therefore run at 490MHz (7x)? Basically wondering if it does something like get as close to 500 without going over

 

[LightBulbFun]

in my experiance the 500Mhz G4 7410 Sonnet ZIF has 3 settings Max-multiplier-9X mode if FSB is less than 66Mhz, if 66Mhz then 7.5 and if more than 66Mhz it goes into 5x mode for 100Mhz expected FSB operation

PowerSurging to Mac OS X 10.5.8: Power Macintosh 9600 fun

set aside the 5500 and played with 9600 some more now I have enough RAM to properly geekbench it I plan to do soon with a variety of CPUs it will be interesting to see how things compare :) so thats what I plan to do soon :) while I had still had 10.2.8 imaged for the 5500 it would be rude...

forums.macrumors.com

although truth be told I cant recall if I tried any FSB speeds between 50Mhz-66Mhz to see if there was any intermediary modes but I know for a fact once ya go above 66 it just defaults 5x which results in a 416Mhz clock on my 83Mhz bus clock G3 beige

Bussing around with a G3 Beige XPC106 Memory controller upgrade

so I have a G3 beige mini-tower in pretty nice shape its a Rev B unit now as many people know I love to tinker with my Computers and I knew that you could in theory overclock the bus on a G3 beige from 66.8Mhz to 83.3Mhz, so I gave this ago on my G3 beige a while ago :) sadly it was not stable...

forums.macrumors.com

from what I can recall just looking at the ZIF I think all this is controlled by a small CPLD, dont think one can poke at it with software/hacking a driver

 

[mg.man]

83Mhz bus clock G3 beige

@max1zzz - see the macrumors post above - now that you have a G3MT - something to experiment with?

 

[cobalt60]

in my experiance the 500Mhz G4 7410 Sonnet ZIF has 3 settings Max-multiplier-9X mode if FSB is less than 66Mhz

is 66MHz really the magic number for 9x? One of these is on eBay right now, and though it is rated as a 500MHz, the chip on it appears to be rated for 450MHz. I am guessing Sonnet certified it reliable to run at 500MHz. But if used in a 60MHz bus Mac (which is less than 66MHz), 9x would put it at 540MHz, which is quite the overclock.

What I want to use these in is an XLR8 Carrier in a 9600. It has DIP switches along the top edge of the card, and I really want to use these switches. Do any 7410 ZIFs allow setting the multiplier from the carrier card or motherboard switches/jumpers? Did Apple ever put 7410s in Yikes from the factory?

 

[Phipli]

is 66MHz really the magic number for 9x? One of these is on eBay right now, and though it is rated as a 500MHz, the chip on it appears to be rated for 450MHz. I am guessing Sonnet certified it reliable to run at 500MHz. But if used in a 60MHz bus Mac (which is less than 66MHz), 9x would put it at 540MHz, which is quite the overclock.

Sonnet used chips with lower written ratings a lot, back to the 68k days and forward to the 1.8GHz G4 days.

They even have a page on their site defending the practice. Depending on the specifics, I sometimes agree, sometimes don't. (I'm happy if you used a high temp range 450MHz part at 500, but I'm not happy if you tested a 450 standard part and decided it ran OK at 500MHz - the reason for the latter not being OK is that that margin was the consumer's margin - what if I bought a 500MHz part to overclock it to 550? But you sent me an already overclocked part? Etc etc etc).

 

[herd]

One of the powerlogix 750FX cards came up for sale:

www.ebay.com/itm/134678105395

I think these are configured in software, but I've never owned one.

 

[Phipli]

One of the powerlogix 750FX cards came up for sale:

www.ebay.com/itm/134678105395

I think these are configured in software, but I've never owned one.

View attachment 60181

One of the cool things about them is that they frequency scale, so they idle at a fairly low speed and ramp up when needed.

 

[trag]

One of the cool things about them is that they frequency scale, so they idle at a fairly low speed and ramp up when needed.

I don't think they actually do that. At least, the version built for the X500 machines (non-ZIF) don't. You set the multiplier you want in the Powerlogix software and they configure to that speed. There's some other stuff you can set, but it's been too long. Wetware memory is not latching....

The speed can be changed on the fly. I'm just near certain there's no provision to detect CPU load and automatically adjust without user intervention.

I run one of the 750GX X500 cards in my Umax S900, but I keep it set to 800 MHz. No real reason to stress it at 1 GHz for my uses.

BTW, has anyone sourced the ZIF card header? I saw someone kind of fabricated one a while back, but some company or companies, must have made that part...

 

[cobalt60]

One of the powerlogix 750FX cards came up for sale

I made an offer, but it wasn't high enough.
I did just win a Sonnet G4 500, with interestingly a 550MHz rated CPU on it. Curious to see if it'll maintain the 9x multiplier up to 58MHz bus, for 522MHz.

 

[cobalt60]

BTW, has anyone sourced the ZIF card header?

Not that I'm aware of. I have 5 modules with horribly bent pins, planning to disassemble them to get a better look at everything.

I bought 10x ZIF modules recently, and every one had smashed pins. They were shipped in way too small of a box with way too little packing material.

 

[Phipli]

I don't think they actually do that. At least, the version built for the X500 machines (non-ZIF) don't. You set the multiplier you want in the Powerlogix software and they configure to that speed. There's some other stuff you can set, but it's been too long. Wetware memory is not latching....

The speed can be changed on the fly. I'm just near certain there's no provision to detect CPU load and automatically adjust without user intervention.

I run one of the 750GX X500 cards in my Umax S900, but I keep it set to 800 MHz. No real reason to stress it at 1 GHz for my uses.

BTW, has anyone sourced the ZIF card header? I saw someone kind of fabricated one a while back, but some company or companies, must have made that part...

PowerLogix 1.1GHz upgrade only running at 650MHz

The machine: B&W G3 (Rev B) The upgrade: PowerLogix G3 1.1GHz The software: Mac OS 9.2.2 CPU Director 1.5f6 (application) CPU Director INIT 2.0b1 (extension) The problem: Metronome and Apple System Profiler report 650MHz as the CPU speed. The gruesome details: I'm using an older...

68kmla.org

See the reply from OWC in the linked post. I had the 1.1GHz ZIF boards in mind, that's what the thread was about.

 

[trag]

PowerLogix 1.1GHz upgrade only running at 650MHz

The machine: B&W G3 (Rev B) The upgrade: PowerLogix G3 1.1GHz The software: Mac OS 9.2.2 CPU Director 1.5f6 (application) CPU Director INIT 2.0b1 (extension) The problem: Metronome and Apple System Profiler report 650MHz as the CPU speed. The gruesome details: I'm using an older...

68kmla.org

See the reply from OWC in the linked post. I had the 1.1GHz ZIF boards in mind, that's what the thread was about.

Thank you. The message mentions that the information is OSX centric. My experience with those upgrades has been purely in Classic OS. I didn't think about the possibility that htey had added CPU activity monitoring in OSX.

 

[Phipli]

Thank you. The message mentions that the information is OSX centric. My experience with those upgrades has been purely in Classic OS. I didn't think about the possibility that htey had added CPU activity monitoring in OSX.

I'm not certain that it is just OSX. I don't know for sure, but some of the G3 iBooks had frequency scaling and OS9 could be installed.

Truth is I don't know for certain. The reason that description is OSX centric is because it describes OSX control panels and settings. It doesn't say that it doesn't work in 9.

 

[trag]

I'm not certain that it is just OSX. I don't know for sure, but some of the G3 iBooks had frequency scaling and OS9 could be installed.

Truth is I don't know for certain. The reason that description is OSX centric is because it describes OSX control panels and settings. It doesn't say that it doesn't work in 9.

I also wasn't thinking about laptops where activity monitoring is more likely to be a feature.

In my experience, ASP always reports the wrong CPU speed on these upgrades (in a PM8500/PM9500 clone running Classic) but GuagePro or Clockometer report it correctly and always report the full speed.

I have not owned a laptop equipped with a 750(c)(f)(g)x.

 

[cobalt60]

I can't get my 7300 to boot much past 58MHz, but I've confirmed the Sonnet 7410 "500" (RX550 on the die) maintains the 9x multiplier at 57.8MHz, for 520MHz. I really want to see what the Sonnet does at 60MHz. I do believe with minimal cooling the 550MHz rated CPU should be able to do 540MHz, but no idea at what point the Sonnet switches over to the 7.5X multiplier; hopefully past 60MHz. I have 3 more main-boards to try for 60MHz.

The Sonnet wouldn't boot until I installed the driver, I just installed the latest I could find. Compared to using the stock 450MHz B&W G3 CPU (installed on carrier in 7300), launching the PowerLogix Cache Control utility causes the computer to crash. This means I so far have not found a way to adjust cache ratio. Also, have not found a way to disable speculative execution. If anyone has an idea how to address these, it would be appreciated, especially disabling speculative execution.

 

[herd]

The Sonnet Encore G4 ZIFs apparently auto-configure their multiplier, and ignore any jumper settings. Is there a way to override this?

Yes. You can remove the sonnet micro-controller and set the PLL yourself. On some of the later sonnet upgrades there is some measure of control by setting resistors that are read by the micro-controller, but if you're going to be making your own upgrades then modifying the sonnet card would be good experience for your soldering and reverse engineering skills. That 7410 chip should easily do 540MHz, but I would guess that if the micro-controller is set for "500" then it would do 480MHz on a 60MHz bus (8x60MHz).

Experimenting on your more common ZIF boards would be a good place to start for configuring PLL, voltage, backside cache, etc.

 

[cobalt60]

I believe the Sonnet only has 3 multipliers it selects from, accounting for 50MHz, 66MHz, and 100MHz bus speeds (9x, 6.5x, and 5x). I am motivated to remove the micro-controller, as I want to build an 83MHz bus Beige G3 again. Others have reported that at 83MHz, these run the 5x setting, for a mere 416MHz; I'd probably be wanting 7x on this example.

I just got back from vacation yesterday, so I can resume these projects again. Had a wrench thrown in too, when 10 of 10 233/266 ZIFs I bought all had bent pins from horrible packing.