BrickOven™ PizzaBox Hack revisited . . .

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

. . . but not in the same vein . . .

I've mentioned this Hack in passing recently, here's linkage to the genesis of the project . . .

BrickOvenCube/6/605/MicroQuadraCluster

. . . none of Bigsadhu's MicroQuadraFeetsMacs™ ever made it to from the Isle of Kiwi to the Isle of Big Apple, but I'm concurrently completing/consolidating my collection . . .

. . . a hopeless task and more than likely thankless when the grlf inspects the level of clutter reduction that I'll ever manage (or wish) to achieve. :

This unrealized Design Study will help somewhat and hopefully look really cool at the same time . . .

pic

pic

New Config:

The one PSU I'm getting will be a spare for the intact 475s and 605s. The rest will be stacked in a KVMified Plexi & Aluminum MacCondoCase with a common ATX PSU and peripheral set for playtime with as many cards as possible.
Quadra 605 Full '040 & overclocked, Ethernet bridge for PhoneNeted Stack

LC 475 Stock - PAS 16

LC III

LC II

LC - IIe

Looks like I'll need to add a third MoBo to the mix to retain the symmetry of the OvenStack, maybe another MicroQuadraFeetsMac™ :?:

Suggestions on what Cool Card might tempt me into adding another sub-Quadra level LC to the stack?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

 

[tecneeq]

What is the point of the orange loudspeakers?

BTW, i imagine this could be really an epic cluster for image rendering. Slap NetBSD on it (6.1 is nearly done and works smoothly on my Q650), add some Beowulf from PKGSRC as well as some kind of raytracer and you are done!

Or a distcc compile farm for 68k packages.

Not fast, but epic and awesome.

I say go for it. Do it. Do it now! I can't, i have only one LC475.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Those are semi-scaled renditions of the brassy speakers in the bottom of each of the six 'zaBoxen, only three of the fans are utilized, the contrast is for differentiation. [] ]'>

I've always wanted to get under the hood of Linux, but decided against it, I enjoy playing with the toys in the physical realm, drivers and cards are where it's at for me.

 

[tecneeq]

I see.

Your BrickOven could solve a NetBSD problem. NetBSD comes, in contrast to Linux, out of one hand, one source code repository. This has NetBSD enabled to use crosscompiling (compiling is the task of generating machine code or binaries from human written code). That means, i can compile the Operating System (kernel, shell, libs, apps, install media, X11 GUI, everything) for a slow architecture such as mac68k on a fast architecture such as amd64 or i386.

NetBSD comes with all the tools one needs to start being productive. For example, a compiler, and GUI editor, a GUI mailer. But not everything is there. For example, there is no browser. You can add a package. But those packages have to be compiled at some time. For this, NetBSD has a system called PKGSRC, basically a directory tree that contains scripted instructions on where to download sourcecode and how to compile it. There are over 12000 packages to be built with each release, for each architecture.

Since the sourcecode in those thousands of packes comes from different sources, it can't be crosscompiled. Which is why you need to compile it on the target architecture. And there you have the problem. Mac68k is incredibly slow. Compiling a few packages needs days. The BrickOven could shorten the time to compile packages significantly. Indeed, one or two BrickOven and a fast networked fileserver could reduce the compiletime of all packages from several month to mere weeks. 8-o

So, where can i order a 8 Node BrickOven with LC475 boards clocked to 40MHz, NIC, 256MB Ram each and a basic NetBSD with distcc and ccache preinstalled? ;D

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Interesting application you've got there. It's all too Greek a GeekSpeak for me to do much more than grok the surface, but it sounds cool.

When all those MicroQuadras were headed to the recycler/dump down under, this was the only reasonably efficient way I could come up with to get some of the goodies off the streets of Oz and into a small package for repackaging here in the States. Doing a SETI work unit (delivered too slowly to be practical) was the only application I had in mind for it at the time.

It was a pipe dream kinda thing, but I'm looking into doing the Rev II version for real this time. I'll make up the plans as I go, I'm thinking a cold-plug drawer/carrier will be in order for expansion card playtime, but unnecessary for your application.

The dearth of individual 2.5" SCSI boot drives almost 11 years later is a major concern. :-/

 

[CelGen]

If you made them out of the IDE-equipped performas you could load up on CF adapters and solve that problem. You could also then make a backplane because all the boards would have their connections in one spot.

Could also then use something like an ATX power supply to drive it all with a single keyswitch that shorts PWR_OK to GND to turn the whole thing on.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Gaaahh!!!!!! 8-o Ribbon cable inferno!

 

[tecneeq]

No need for disks, netboot. Use a simple loader on a floppy.

As for my previous text, i guess one could compress it like that: NetBSD itself can be made on fast machines for slow targets. But the packages must be made on that slow target which takes month. A bunch of BrickOven would reduce the time to weeks, maybe even days, thus improving release cycles.

I'm just wondering, what would be your usage for a BrickOven? It's nice to build a cluster and all, but it should have something to do, right? :approve:

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

You could put your loader and maybe evev the OS on dougg3's ROM SIMM if you populate the empty SIMM Slot pads on all the MicroQuadra boards.

Stacking a rack of Quadra 650 boards for your NetBSDbox would be even better, full .040s and AAUI all around with oodles of lovely 72pin SIMM Slots for trag's 32MB sticks! }

 

[bbraun]

techneeq: you mentioned you have a 650. Do you have one of dougg3's ROM SIMMs? Can you put a SIMM socket into it? It might be interesting to see how well netbsd does with the modified ROM to allow 520MB RAM in those machines.

 

[tecneeq]

@bbraun: I don't have one of dougg3s SIMMs and i don't have the skill to add any sockets either, i'm afraid. I just recently started soldering crystals and caps.

NetBSD would benefit if the used virtual memory would otherwise approach the amount of physical memory. With more ram there would be still room for file caches and no need to swap out memory.

But there are other positive effects of more ram. You could use --pipe while compiling code. That way the compiler wouldn't have to use as much temporary files on disk, which is a very costly operation in terms of time. So, more physical memory could speed up compilation quite a bit if the right compiler flags are set.

One could even dare to try using make -j2 AND --pipe together, with that much ram. That should keep the CPU constantly under load, not wasting any time while accessing the net or disk.

@Trash80toHP_Mini: Yes, one could do a BrickOvenPro with Q650 boards, but where does one get the boards? Also the boards are larger and probably use up more energy compared to a Q605 and a NIC (same CPU, same clockspeed).

Don't forget, most people here didn't have macs back then, they had mostly C64/Amiga and then PCs. That's why almost all early macs are more rare here. Also a bit more pricey. Some things you can't find at all. For example, there are no NUBUS or PDS cards listed at ebay. Not one! Accelerator cards? I haven't seen any at Ebay germany. Ever.

 

[olePigeon]

If you've done crystals, a socket should be relatively just as easy. It's all through-hole. Just think of it as a crystal with 64 pins instead of 2.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I love this idea, I've got four 475/605 Mobos to recap and a couple of NICs already. One of the MoBos has a factory installed SIMM slot to test the ROMboot/bootstrapping netboot options.

If nyone interested in this test, keep an eye out on eBay.US for fugly 475/605s I can bottom fish and for good deals on those and the 128 MB SIMMs-n-NICs and full '040s/donors. I can build one (or both) versions while I'm at it. It'll be fun to test this application. I've probably got six full '040s for the testing phase

Can you run it remotely from Germany to do your compiling? }

 

[Bunsen]

I kind of have a similar concept in mind, but for space reasons. To have a single tower with logic boards containing each 68k architecture, from 68000 up to '040, with a KVM, so one box can run any existing 68k Mac application without taking up half a room.

performas / You could also then make a backplane because all the boards would have their connections in one spot.

Gaaahh!!!!!! 8-o Ribbon cable inferno!

Not at all. A properly designed backplane would replace all the ribbon cables with PCB traces.

 

[onlyonemac]

Hackwhine! Hackwhine!

You're not destroying multiple Macs in one there are you???!!! 8-o

(Remember I'm allowed to Hackwhine in your threads.)

 

[uniserver]

I don't see any destruction with this mod, He is just stacking logic boards.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

(Remember I'm allowed to Hackwhine in your threads.)

Only one problem, the other mods have decided you really need to cut it out altogether, it looks like one of them removed a legion of emoticons from your post.

Cease and desist order is hereby in place, no warning issued . . . yet.

 

[CelGen]

Not at all. A properly designed backplane would replace all the ribbon cables with PCB traces.

The Crate II is is a beautiful example of this.

The Performa boards are even better for this as you can remove the interconnect in the mac, addach them to a PCB and for the most part all the traces run parallel right up the height of the unit.