Floppy EMU on Lisa

I just got a Lisa 2/10, and the hard drive spins up but does not read. I have a Floppy EMU which has several Lisa image files on it. I used DiskCopy on my Mac Plus to make a copy of a Lisa disk image onto a 400k disk. Tried a couple of disk images but Lisa did not like them. After getting everything unstuck the Lisa floppy drive works mechanically but maybe not reading? What Lisa image file should I use to make a boot floppy? Also, how do you connect the Floppy EMU directly to the Lisa and boot from it?

What kind of repairs or work has been done on this system? Typically a Lisa 2/10 needs the floppy drive thoroughly cleaned and lubricated. The widget drives are notoriously hard to get running again but I’ve found that you should check the drives “parking brake” and controller board cable (the wide flat cable between the controller board and backplane on the widget). There are some helpful tips here: https://lisafaq.sunder.net/single.html

onabeach said:

Also, how do you connect the Floppy EMU directly to the Lisa and boot from it?

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You unplug the floppy drive and plug the cable into the Floppy Emu, which must be running the Mac+Lisa firmware. There is no real elegant place to put the Floppy Emu: for me, it hangs off of a ribbon cable that snakes its way out from the case.

When you turn on the Lisa, press a key while the Lisa is undergoing its self tests (assuming your keyboard works: unrepaired Lisa keyboards often don't owing to degraded Keytronics foam pads; buy replacements here.) When the tests finish, you'll see a menu: choose the floppy drive option.

Thanks for replies. After turning on the Lisa it steps thru the test icons and when it gets to i/o it beeps 3 high notes and has the crossed out icon. It will eventually give me the option to boot from the hd or floppy. I figured out how to hook up the Emu. It has the Dec '23 firmware update. I select one of the img from the Lisa list and select the floppy icon on the Lisa. The Emu flashes, reads one track and thats as far as it gets; floppy icon crossed out. Same result if I try a floppy in the floppy drive created on a Mac Plus with disk copy 4.2 from an img from the Emu . Floppy spins up but eventually ejected. The hard drive appears to be working. It spins up annd flashes rapidly but the head spindle does not move. I can easily turn the spindle shaft while its running.
So none of the three working devices can boot it up. Is it the I/O board? Wrong/bad LOS?

Also how do I create .img files from .dc42 files?

onabeach said:

After turning on the Lisa it steps thru the test icons and when it gets to i/o it beeps 3 high notes and has the crossed out icon.

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This is a sign that your I/O board could be broken. There can be other reasons for this to happen, but the I/O board is a suspect.

Sometimes these faults are accompanied by a numerical code. Do you see anything else on the screen besides a crossed-out icon?

onabeach said:

floppy icon crossed out. Same result if I try a floppy in the floppy drive created on a Mac Plus with disk copy 4.2 from an img from the Emu . Floppy spins up but eventually ejected.

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Is there any code on the screen?

onabeach said:

The hard drive appears to be working. It spins up annd flashes rapidly but the head spindle does not move. I can easily turn the spindle shaft while its running.

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To me, the spindle is the big motor that turns the disk platter. The thing that moves the heads is the head actuator. I would be extremely careful about moving the heads by yourself; I only do it as a last resort.

Fixing Widgets is a very challenging undertaking and I probably don't have time in the next few months to help someone through troubleshooting, unfortunately. Do you hear a "click" noise shortly after the Widget spins up? That's the brake on the head actuator disengaging. If you don't hear it, then it's a mystery as to why you can move the heads manually. If you can, then it's a sign that the Widget is spinning up well and at least starting to "boot" itself.

onabeach said:

Wrong/bad LOS?

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I don't think we're that far along yet; I doubt that LOS is being loaded at this stage.

onabeach said:

Also how do I create .img files from .dc42 files?

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Do you need to do that? Floppy Emu can read and write to .dc42 files.

There has been no numerical code after startup. When it jumps to the I/O icon, it immediately says no keyboard and pauses for a bit. Does it usually test the I/O board quickly? I am getting a keyboard adaptor soon and maybe that will change things.

Yes, I moved the head actuator shaft while it was running. I read that this can get stiff when not used for along time; mine was free. I did hear a click from the Widget when it started.

I wanted to try to create a Lisa OS floppy to boot from so I went to the macintosh repository and downloaded Lisa OS 3 and it came as a .doc42 10MB file on my MacBook. So I can use DiskCopy 4.2 on my Mac Plus/bluSCSI/Floppy EMU to create a bootable disk with this file?

Should I learn how to use the Basic Lisa Utility?

Thanks for your help stepleton.

onabeach said:

Does it usually test the I/O board quickly?

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The I/O board test takes much less than a second.

I had thought you were seeing a crossed-out I/O board icon. Are you seeing a crossed-out keyboard icon instead? If you have no keyboard, then you will get a "no keyboard" (crossed-out keyboard icon) error. This is normal.

Question: during the self-test, what code do you see in the top-right corner of the screen? It should be short and have a slash in the middle, something like "H/88".

onabeach said:

Yes, I moved the head actuator shaft while it was running. I read that this can get stiff when not used for along time; mine was free. I did hear a click from the Widget when it started.

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It's probably not necessary to tweak the heads manually at this stage. I would stop doing that for now.

onabeach said:

I wanted to try to create a Lisa OS floppy to boot from so I went to the macintosh repository and downloaded Lisa OS 3 and it came as a .doc42 10MB file on my MacBook. So I can use DiskCopy 4.2 on my Mac Plus/bluSCSI/Floppy EMU to create a bootable disk with this file?

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Office System floppy disks are 400K disks. 10MB is much too large and is probably an image of a hard disk. You'll need to find floppy disk images.

onabeach said:

Should I learn how to use the Basic Lisa Utility?

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It's certainly a useful thing to know about, so I recommend reading the manual. You probably don't need to use it right now: instead, try finding some Office System floppy disk images and see if you can boot from the image of the first system disk with your Floppy Emu.

Yes, there is a H/88 code. Attached is a startup vid.

Same result starting with the EMU using the Lisa Office D1 img

What is the numerical code underneath the crossed-out floppy disk icon?

I would disconnect the power cable and the data cable from the Widget for this stage of the investigation. Once we know better what's wrong with the floppy booting attempt, we can hopefully fix that first.

Both the EMU and the floppy drive show an error 38 code

Whats the best way to make a boot LOS floppy?

Fixed!!!
The problem was that I configured the EMU for Mac disks rather then Lisa Disks. Since I could select disks in the Lisa menu, I thought they were Lisa disks. So I reconfigured it for the Lisa disks, but still didn't get it to boot until I selected one of the MacWorks disks. Aspect ratio was wrong, and the hard disk install failed, but those are hopefully just software fixes/changes. I hope to be able to boot up in Lisa Office from the 10MB Widget.

An EMU is a train, an emu is a large bird, but a Floppy Emu is a floppy drive and hard drive emulator for Apple computers...

onabeach said:

Aspect ratio was wrong

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It was probably correct for the Lisa. Lisa pixels are little tall rectangles; Mac pixels are squares. When MacWorks draws a Mac desktop with the Lisa's rectangular pixels, it looks strange and tall. Apple sold a conversion kit later on that converted Lisa pixels to square ones, but this prevented you from running the Office System: after the mod you could only run MacWorks.

onabeach said:

I hope to be able to boot up in Lisa Office from the 10MB Widget.

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This is a good goal, but for that you will need to repair or replace your Widget. The device you have can turn on and release the brake, but it doesn't want to swing the arm. To repair, it will be necessary to find out why that is, but unfortunately this can take a lot of electronics troubleshooting. In your case I would also want to use a special debugging tool like UsbWidEx, which can speak directly to the servo mechanism that controls the arm. There are probably other ways to diagnose and hopefully repair. Either way, unless you're lucky and it's just some loose connectors, this is likely to be a challenge.

After reseating the cards and some of the chips on the Widget, and tweaking the pots on the Widget's motherboard, it now boots up to MacWorks
I can also erase/write/read the floppy drive.
I think the real trick was cleaning the Lisa's cover panels. This old girl still likes to look good!

Now tryinng to move the Lisa office files on the Floppy Emu to the hard drive. Should I attempt to switch to Lisa office or leave well enough alone? It has the H/88 ROM.

Congratulations! You were lucky!

I recommend reading about BLU now. If you have a modern computer with a serial port, along with the appropriate cable, you will be able to make a complete byte-for-byte backup of your Widget onto some more reliable storage. Once you do that, you can replace the hard drive contents with whatever you like and still be able to restore the original contents if you desire.

To install the Office System, you will need to boot from the first Office System disk and follow the instructions on the screen.

H/88 is the "stock" ROM for the Lisa 2/10. Unless there is another fault, your Lisa is ready to run the Office System.