Portable issue

[imactheknife]

So we had some nasty storms roll through and the power outages started. Didnt think anything has everything that is plugged in is on a surge bar. The portable has a new battery and has been plugged in for the last month with no issues. I went to try it today, nothing. Battery still has a charge, power adapter is recapped along with the portable logic board. Power adapter shows 7.5v so did something fry in powerbook?

 

[LaPorta]

Did you try the PMU reset button on the side?

 

[imactheknife]

Did you try the PMU reset button on the side?

Yeah, tried that, nothing. So might have to pull apart. My 180c is now acting up. It was also plugged in. Does this look like a power issue, or display issue

 

[LaPorta]

Sorry, somehow I didn’t see it was “you” (someone who does this a lot), so sorry to suggest something simple. You get nothing at all? Maybe try removing the battery and all power, and try letting it sit a while…then battery again.

Otherwise, it might be tracking down voltages into the hybrid. If that isn’t working, at least there are easy replacements now. If he is available, techknight would weigh in.

 

[imactheknife]

Sorry, somehow I didn’t see it was “you” (someone who does this a lot), so sorry to suggest something simple. You get nothing at all? Maybe try removing the battery and all power, and try letting it sit a while…then battery again.

Otherwise, it might be tracking down voltages into the hybrid. If that isn’t working, at least there are easy replacements now. If he is available, techknight would weigh in.

No, worries! Yeah, i will try that and see. Friend said may be fuse by battery area? Not wanting to take apart, have lots of other stuff going on with house reno.

 

[imactheknife]

Everything looks fine, just no power at all. Battery is new, still says 6.5v.

 

[SuperSVGA]

I would start by checking the fuse, I have seen them blow just with a power adapter connected, or even a "turned off" bench supply connected to the DC jack, but not really sure why.

Next if the fuse is good, take a look at voltages on Q16 with battery power connected to see if the main 5V is working, though this will require having power properly provided to the battery connector.

 

[imactheknife]

I would start by checking the fuse, I have seen them blow just with a power adapter connected, or even a "turned off" bench supply connected to the DC jack, but not really sure why.

Next if the fuse is good, take a look at voltages on Q16 with battery power connected to see if the main 5V is working, though this will require having power properly provided to the battery connector.

Ok, I checked fuse by continuity and by ohm. It reads 0ohm, or 0.01. If i check q16 do i need to hook up working battery, power adapter and 9volt?

 

[SuperSVGA]

Only the battery is necessary, assuming it is above the minimum voltage of around 5.6V.

 

[imactheknife]

Only the battery is necessary, assuming it is above the minimum voltage of around 5.6V.

I am getting no voltage on pin 2. Hoping i am checking it correctly.

 

[imactheknife]

I am getting no voltage on pin 2. Hoping i am checking it correctly.

Ok, forgot to put battery cover on, so getting proper voltage at q16. 5.19volts. Everything else seems to check out albeit some resistances a tad higher than andromeda. Like instead of 0.3, i have 0.4, 0.5 etc

 

[imactheknife]

Ok, forgot to put battery cover on, so getting proper voltage at q16. 5.19volts. Everything else seems to check out albeit some resistances a tad higher than andromeda. Like instead of 0.3, i have 0.4, 0.5 etc

Checked everything again, all looks good. So is it recommended to get new hybrid. Hate to keep asking questions lol.. just love this machine and want to see it work again

 

[SuperSVGA]

Checked everything again, all looks good. So is it recommended to get new hybrid. Hate to keep asking questions lol.. just love this machine and want to see it work again

Well you're getting a good +5V which means a few things are likely working fine:

• The OpAmp for regulating the +5V
• The 1.2V reference used in regulation
• The comparator managing the "low battery" cutoff (you would not have +5V otherwise)

The only other things on the hybrid from memory are:

• -5V generation
• A/D line to report battery voltage to the power manager
• Charge detection and control
• +12V control

I don't believe any of those things should stop the system from at least trying to turn on, so I feel like as long as there isn't some undetected issue with the +5V then the problem is likely somewhere else.

 

[imactheknife]

Well you're getting a good +5V which means a few things are likely working fine:

• The OpAmp for regulating the +5V
• The 1.2V reference used in regulation
• The comparator managing the "low battery" cutoff (you would not have +5V otherwise)

The only other things on the hybrid from memory are:

• -5V generation
• A/D line to report battery voltage to the power manager
• Charge detection and control
• +12V control

I don't believe any of those things should stop the system from at least trying to turn on, so I feel like as long as there isn't some undetected issue with the +5V then the problem is likely somewhere else.

Yeah its a little frustrating. I have checked and rechecked. Maybe check solder joints, look for a broken trace? Strange. No sign of life at all. Was working with zero issues ever since i bought the new battery. The battery still shows 6.41 volts

 

[SuperSVGA]

It would probably need some more testing, for example checking to see if the "powered on" +5V from Q11 is coming on, though I doubt it is.

A few things I can think of right now:

• Check the reset and programmer buttons, make sure the signal is high and goes low when pressed
• Look at pin 9 of U13L, I believe it should be low and go high when a keyboard key is pressed
• Try manually pulling SYS_PWR* to ground to force the system to power up

 

[imactheknife]

So, replaced power manager with a known working one, no difference. So my guess is now the hybrid or something else. The power manager that was on here works, as i put it on a powerbook 100 logic board and she fired right up. So the chip wasnt bad. Have a hybrid on order. Any other thoughts before it gets here?

 

[SuperSVGA]

Were you able to check any of the signals involved in powering on the computer? The main +5V is controlled by SYS_PWR*, which is controlled by the power manager.

Some possible causes for the main +5V not turning on when the standby +5V is working:

• SYS_PWR* is being asserted but the main +5V isn't working
  • SYS_PWR* is not reaching Q11, for example a broken trace between Q11 and the power manager
  • Q11 isn't receiving the standby +5V
  • Q11 is bad
• SYS_PWR* is not being asserted
  • The power manager is not receiving any signs of keyboard input via U13L
  • The power manager is refusing to turn on the system, possibly because it thinks the battery is too low from the A/D line (though I'm pretty sure I remember it still turning on even if it is too low)
  • It's possible if the power manager thinks it is being held in reset (i.e. the reset button) that it won't turn on power

 

[imactheknife]

Were you able to check any of the signals involved in powering on the computer? The main +5V is controlled by SYS_PWR*, which is controlled by the power manager.

Some possible causes for the main +5V not turning on when the standby +5V is working:

• SYS_PWR* is being asserted but the main +5V isn't working
  • SYS_PWR* is not reaching Q11, for example a broken trace between Q11 and the power manager
  • Q11 isn't receiving the standby +5V
  • Q11 is bad
• SYS_PWR* is not being asserted
  • The power manager is not receiving any signs of keyboard input via U13L
  • The power manager is refusing to turn on the system, possibly because it thinks the battery is too low from the A/D line (though I'm pretty sure I remember it still turning on even if it is too low)
  • It's possible if the power manager thinks it is being held in reset (i.e. the reset button) that it won't turn on power

Unfortunately I don’t know how to check if something is held in reset or high or low. Still trying to figure that out. I do have a multi meter etc.

 

[finkmac]

Unfortunately I don’t know how to check if something is held in reset or high or low. Still trying to figure that out. I do have a multi meter etc.

my man, you gotta invest in an oscilloscope. multimeter is great but there's only so much you can do with one.

a cheap logic analyzer dongle will also help. you can get the cheapo salae ones on amazon.

 

[SuperSVGA]

Unfortunately I don’t know how to check if something is held in reset or high or low. Still trying to figure that out. I do have a multi meter etc.

If a signal is switching between high and low the multimeter probably won't be fast enough to track it, but a steady signal like something that is staying on or off it should be able to see. Just put the negative probe on a good ground point like the shielding on the various ports or the negative leg of one of the axial capacitors, and then you can probe around with the positive probe.

SYS_PWR* for example is active low, so it's "true" when down towards 0V and "false" at 5V.

The MOSFET controlling the powered-on +5V is controlled by SYS_PWR* connected to the gate of the MOSFET. At 5V no current will flow, and near 0V current will flow allowing power to the main +5V.


Simulation