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Apple Network Server 9650 Reinstall

ej257

6502
Hi all, new to this forum. I recently purchased a used Apple Network Server 9560/350 off ebay. The unit arrived in good condition, but the OS hard drive (Quantum Viking 4550S) is seized. I have a new hard drive in the mail of a similar type and would like to reinstall the software.

I would like to install Mac OS 9.1, and the additional network applications it shipped with. I can find a 9.1 install image, but can't seem to find the extra network applications anywhere. Does anyone have a source or a copy of this software? Any help is much appreciated!
 
The WGS9650 would have come with AppleShare IP 5.x.

If you’re going with Mac OS 9, then AppleShare IP 6.x would be what you would look for. If you’re a completionist, you can often find boxed copies on eBay for not much money.
 
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Thank you both Byrd and MacKilRoy for the information! I have been able to find the software now and will do a fresh install once the new drive arrives.

For the hard drive replacement, I found and purchased a similar SCSI Quantum Viking hard drive. Do you know if larger/newer 68pin Ultra160 or Ultra320 hard drives are compatible with the Hammer Ultra SCSI JackHammer PCI card? I read up on the different SCSI standards, but am unsure about backwards/forwards compatibility between SCSI standards.
 
Welcome in!

As far as I know, the 9650 should have been available both with and without AppleShare (and AFAIK the PowerMac G3 based workgroup server was the first generation where AppleShare IP was included by default), you can install whatever version of Mac OS you want (7.6.1 through to 9.1) and whatever version of AppleShare or other server software you want.

The machine is identical to the basic Power Macintosh 9600 so you don't even have to install server software on it.

W/re HDDs: newer UltraSCSI disks should work fine on that card, provided they're the same voltage level, as far as I know most SCSI stuff is low voltage differential, but the manual for the disc you want to use will know for sure.

These machines can also run a few different IDE and SATA Cards, system 7.6.1 through 9.x support up to 2TB volumes.

I need to get this going more but one thing I started a bit after my work on vtools was writing up my notes on running AppleShare. What I've got so far is here: https://doku.stenoweb.net/doku.php?id=macdex:asip-6-guide - not much in terms of the technology quite yet, the built in help is good at that, that's a "one of these days" kind of project, unfortunately.
 
For the hard drive replacement, I found and purchased a similar SCSI Quantum Viking hard drive. Do you know if larger/newer 68pin Ultra160 or Ultra320 hard drives are compatible with the Hammer Ultra SCSI JackHammer PCI card? I read up on the different SCSI standards, but am unsure about backwards/forwards compatibility between SCSI standards.
I'd look out for an earlier UltraSCSI drive, 73GB were popular and people used to get these with 50pin to 68 pin adapters for use in older Macs. The newer the drive I suspect you'll have compatibility problems.

However, server SCSI drives run hot and loud - I'd seek a Mac compatible PCI SATA card and put a cheap SATA SSD in there instead.

I own a WGS 9650/350, it came with a single retail OS 9 CD and nothing else apart from the same UltraSCSI card which I removed.
 
There's a lot of different options for this era of machine. What you choose will depend on your budget, parts availability, and what technology problems you want to give yourself, along with what problems you want to solve.

SATA is a great idea, but I'll caution that the only compatible SATA card on US eBay right now is being listed for $350 -- If that's fine, then, yay!

If not, then looking for ultra SCSI disks may be your best bet. The only thing you need to do is make sure that the signalling voltage is the same, there were two, "low" and "high" and if I remember right, most stuff that ever hit Macs was "low", but it's worth checking.

The 8600/9600 can definitely cool whatever server disks you put in, and newer ones will probably run a bit cooler, use the two lower bays below the PCI slots since those were meant for hot-fast disks.

Another option is SD card SCSI replacers, I personally use a SCSI2SD v6 in my 8600/300 and recommend it for this type and era of machine. You can get them for about $100 in the US and then just add a reasonably good SD card. I'm using a somewhat high end UHS-1 card in mine, I have a 32-gig card but any size that exists (up to 512GB AFAIK) should work fine.


If you're looking for a server for your vintage Macs, the AWGS9650 might not be the most practical option, it, again, depends on what your goals are. I'm using ASIP6 on a PowerMac G4 to huff vibes, not because I think it's actually any good at what I'm asking it to do. (It's not.) Netatalk on Linux or Windows 2003 on a Hyper-V/VMware VM would be more efficient and capable. Even Mac OS X 10.4 in VMware or on an Intel Mac will be more capable, often you can do better for less money, and more flexible.
 
There's a lot of different options for this era of machine. What you choose will depend on your budget, parts availability, and what technology problems you want to give yourself, along with what problems you want to solve.

SATA is a great idea, but I'll caution that the only compatible SATA card on US eBay right now is being listed for $350 -- If that's fine, then, yay!

If not, then looking for ultra SCSI disks may be your best bet. The only thing you need to do is make sure that the signalling voltage is the same, there were two, "low" and "high" and if I remember right, most stuff that ever hit Macs was "low", but it's worth checking.

The 8600/9600 can definitely cool whatever server disks you put in, and newer ones will probably run a bit cooler, use the two lower bays below the PCI slots since those were meant for hot-fast disks.

Another option is SD card SCSI replacers, I personally use a SCSI2SD v6 in my 8600/300 and recommend it for this type and era of machine. You can get them for about $100 in the US and then just add a reasonably good SD card. I'm using a somewhat high end UHS-1 card in mine, I have a 32-gig card but any size that exists (up to 512GB AFAIK) should work fine.


If you're looking for a server for your vintage Macs, the AWGS9650 might not be the most practical option, it, again, depends on what your goals are. I'm using ASIP6 on a PowerMac G4 to huff vibes, not because I think it's actually any good at what I'm asking it to do. (It's not.) Netatalk on Linux or Windows 2003 on a Hyper-V/VMware VM would be more efficient and capable. Even Mac OS X 10.4 in VMware or on an Intel Mac will be more capable, often you can do better for less money, and more flexible.
I was looking into these Sonnet PCI SATA cards, but the price is keeping me from instantly purchasing it. I noticed the controller is a Silicon Image 3112, and some enterprising individuals have been able to flash a ROM onto the similar PC market cards. I might try this and see if I can get it working, but some people had varied success because of how large the ROM images are, and how much ROM space certain SATA cards have.

Until then I will attempt to re-install OS9 with the SCSI hard drive that should be delivered this week or next. Again, thank you all for the insight, and I will keep you updated on this effort. All this feedback and knowledge is great!
 
I was looking into these Sonnet PCI SATA cards, but the price is keeping me from instantly purchasing it. I noticed the controller is a Silicon Image 3112, and some enterprising individuals have been able to flash a ROM onto the similar PC market cards. I might try this and see if I can get it working, but some people had varied success because of how large the ROM images are, and how much ROM space certain SATA cards have.

Until then I will attempt to re-install OS9 with the SCSI hard drive that should be delivered this week or next. Again, thank you all for the insight, and I will keep you updated on this effort. All this feedback and knowledge is great!

I bought a PCI SATA card on eBay from Hong Kong, with Mac firmware, for around $50. It works great in the G3 beige that I put it in, and boots Mac OS 8.1 off a 120GB SATA SSD just fine.
 
This is exactly what I'm looking for. Was it a card like this one?

Yes, I think that might be the exact item I bought but I can’t remember. The pictures resemble what I saw when I bought mine. The 2 port is compatible with pre-OSX and the 4 port requires OSX exclusively. So the two-port is a more compatible option.
 
There's a lot of different options for this era of machine. What you choose will depend on your budget, parts availability, and what technology problems you want to give yourself, along with what problems you want to solve.

SATA is a great idea, but I'll caution that the only compatible SATA card on US eBay right now is being listed for $350 -- If that's fine, then, yay!

If not, then looking for ultra SCSI disks may be your best bet. The only thing you need to do is make sure that the signalling voltage is the same, there were two, "low" and "high" and if I remember right, most stuff that ever hit Macs was "low", but it's worth checking.

The 8600/9600 can definitely cool whatever server disks you put in, and newer ones will probably run a bit cooler, use the two lower bays below the PCI slots since those were meant for hot-fast disks.

Another option is SD card SCSI replacers, I personally use a SCSI2SD v6 in my 8600/300 and recommend it for this type and era of machine. You can get them for about $100 in the US and then just add a reasonably good SD card. I'm using a somewhat high end UHS-1 card in mine, I have a 32-gig card but any size that exists (up to 512GB AFAIK) should work fine.


If you're looking for a server for your vintage Macs, the AWGS9650 might not be the most practical option, it, again, depends on what your goals are. I'm using ASIP6 on a PowerMac G4 to huff vibes, not because I think it's actually any good at what I'm asking it to do. (It's not.) Netatalk on Linux or Windows 2003 on a Hyper-V/VMware VM would be more efficient and capable. Even Mac OS X 10.4 in VMware or on an Intel Mac will be more capable, often you can do better for less money, and more flexible.
The SATA card auction just ended for a total of.... $1,525. That's an insane bidding war.
 
The SATA card auction just ended for a total of.... $1,525. That's an insane bidding war.

It will be interesting to see if that card is relisted in the next little while. I’ve seen it all too often.

not in the history of the world is a PCI SATA card worth $1500 - this is an example of money laundering (I’ve seen it a bit for obscure tech items of late)
 
Tough to say what's going on there, I don't want to make any presumptions and haven't done any, like, amateur investigation or anything.

That same seller had a bunch of other stuff, it appears their focus is on tiptopping, and there's lots of sites that have The Perfect Six Slot Formula.

EDIT/ADD: and it might just be someone who read one of those guides and wanted to get The SATA Card and it didn't occur to them to wait or flash one.
 
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Thank you all for your help with this project. After seeing the Sonnet card go for ridiculous money I looked into getting a SCSI 80pin drive and adapter. I ordered two 300gb 15000rpm ultra 320 drives for $32 shipped, and two SCSI 80 to 68 adapters for $16 shipped from ebay.

While waiting for the SCSI adapters to arrive from China I checked ebay again for other options and to my surprise I was able to score a Sonnet SATA PCI card under $34 shipped! The seller listed it as "PCI Express" but obviously the model is PCI only. Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/125142555676

I had a spare Intel Datacenter 32GB SSD that was fairly old as far as SSD's go, but works well. The controller recognized it, and Mac OS 9.1 installed without issues, and quickly! The SCSI 80 pin drives and SCSI adapters just showed up, and the existing controller recognized them without issue as well (only have one installed in the machine at this time).

The Apple Workgroup Server 9650 is back! Again, thank you for your time and expertise Byrd, MacKilRoy and Cory5412!
 

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