SD to IDE drive replacement for PDQ PowerBook G3

[AndiS]

Here is my question: what IS an IDE to m.2 adapter?

Look at the Wikipedia entry

In short, it is the current standard connector for Flash disks in computers and replaces the former (bigger) mSATA conector. There is a photo showing both side by side at the linked Wikipedia site.

What makes it a bit more complicated, is that there are m.2 connectors and SSDs talking different protocols! The older one is SATA, as used by traditional SATA as well as mSATA connectors. And there is the the newer, much faster NVM Express protocol.

You have to be sure what to get when buying replacements for old IDE drives, but IDE to m.2 is probably the best and most reliable option at this time. I do plan to use them to replace the disks of a Clamshell iBook, a G4 mini and a G4 Powerbook as soon as have time to order the parts.

 

[LaPorta]

Very interesting….are they more expensive?

 

[AndiS]

Since m.2 is the current standard, the SSDs tend to be cheaper than mSATA ones. IDE to m.2 adapters in a 2.5" HD form factor go for about 15-20 Euros at Amazon.

The thing is, it is becoming hard to get SSDs below 128 GB. If you want something smaller, the SDcard option is still worth consideration

 

[just.in.time]

@AlpineRaven do you have a link for the m.2 board you have?

 

[NJRoadfan]

The m.2 form factor supports pure SATA drives (usually notched with the "B" and "M" keys). All the adapter does is convert SATA to PATA, the drive itself is simply a different form factor, nothing more.

 

[Cory5412]

Run some tests - clearly m.2 is the fastest - see highlighted.

What version of System Info is that? If it's the 68k version (3.1 I think?) it may be worth running these tests with PPC-native software, just in case the 68k version is leaving some performance on the table.

That said: This is genuinely a great showing for SD card adapters, and the mSATA adapter is arguably nothing to sneeze at compared to the stock disks.

w/re 128GB: it might still be worth doing, and this line of investigation is probably still worth having for systems that do support >137GB. The TiBook/1000 for example addresses a 160-gig disk I have fine and a 256-512GB m.2 SSD would be a hilarious, if a little overpowered for it. For systems that don't support LBA48 you can just run your disk as the first hwoever many gigs are recognized and leave the rest of the room for wear leveling. Probably worth under-provisioning a bit for, say, OS X systems since OS X didn't support TRIM until well into the Intel era.

A thing I'd be interested in seeing, if it's posible to test, is how any of these solutions do under sustained workload. Something like capturing a DV tape off of firewire would be an interesting stress test. (Granted, you can just use a desktop and a PCI SATA card and a regular SSD for that, so whether or not that's "important" to test is... an exercise left to the people who have all the parts, which I don't right now.

The m.2 form factor supports pure SATA drives (usually notched with the "B" and "M" keys). All the adapter does is convert SATA to PATA, the drive itself is simply a different form factor, nothing more.

That's a great point. If an m.2 SSD is faster than an mSATA one it's just because SSD tech got better. If I remember correctly, SSDs reaching that peak 6 gigabit number happened a bit after mSATA fell out of style.

If you want something smaller, the SDcard option is still worth consideration

Agreed completely, to be honest, I think the only way anyone will "experience" the numbers AlpineRaven's benchmarks show is if they either use OS X or if they... run a benchmark.

 

[AlpineRaven]

Very interesting….are they more expensive?

They're getting cheaper in these days but harder to get, low space ie. 32/64gb/128gb/256gb are appearing in recyclers now which they quietly take them out and I buy a bulk (I have about nearly 15 of them mixed of m.2, mSATA and 3rd party drives - with m.2, theres 3 different types of SSD drives - M key, B key & B&M Key. (further comment below)

Since m.2 is the current standard, the SSDs tend to be cheaper than mSATA ones. IDE to m.2 adapters in a 2.5" HD form factor go for about 15-20 Euros at Amazon.

The thing is, it is becoming hard to get SSDs below 128 GB. If you want something smaller, the SDcard option is still worth consideration

As above comment

The m.2 form factor supports pure SATA drives (usually notched with the "B" and "M" keys). All the adapter does is convert SATA to PATA, the drive itself is simply a different form factor, nothing more.

Yes - again, some m.2 cards simply do not work/bootable or not be seen - so its a bit of gamble. I have noticed that M key tend not to work that well in legacy computers. Its pretty hit and miss.

What version of System Info is that? If it's the 68k version (3.1 I think?) it may be worth running these tests with PPC-native software, just in case the 68k version is leaving some performance on the table.

That said: This is genuinely a great showing for SD card adapters, and the mSATA adapter is arguably nothing to sneeze at compared to the stock disks.

w/re 128GB: it might still be worth doing, and this line of investigation is probably still worth having for systems that do support >137GB. The TiBook/1000 for example addresses a 160-gig disk I have fine and a 256-512GB m.2 SSD would be a hilarious, if a little overpowered for it. For systems that don't support LBA48 you can just run your disk as the first hwoever many gigs are recognized and leave the rest of the room for wear leveling. Probably worth under-provisioning a bit for, say, OS X systems since OS X didn't support TRIM until well into the Intel era.

A thing I'd be interested in seeing, if it's posible to test, is how any of these solutions do under sustained workload. Something like capturing a DV tape off of firewire would be an interesting stress test. (Granted, you can just use a desktop and a PCI SATA card and a regular SSD for that, so whether or not that's "important" to test is... an exercise left to the people who have all the parts, which I don't right now.



That's a great point. If an m.2 SSD is faster than an mSATA one it's just because SSD tech got better. If I remember correctly, SSDs reaching that peak 6 gigabit number happened a bit after mSATA fell out of style.



Agreed completely, to be honest, I think the only way anyone will "experience" the numbers AlpineRaven's benchmarks show is if they either use OS X or if they... run a benchmark.

I used Norton System Info version 5 - if I used earlier version it doesn't seem to show correct specs for my PowerBook G3 PDQ (speed is incorrect shown)

Yep - with PowerBook G3 has size limitations - the 1st partition is 7.6gb for OSX boot the other 3 Partitioned is for MacOS 8.1, 8.6 and 9.2.2 and the 5th Partition is whatever left over space which is the storage drive.

Yep - it was good experience to figure out which one was the best out of all.
Cheers
AP

 

[AlpineRaven]

@AlpineRaven do you have a link for the m.2 board you have?

Amazon.com

 

[Tom2112]

Thanks for writing this up. I'm about to embark on the same mission with my "new" PowerBook 1400c/166. So it was great to find it laid out with instructions. I have a couple of CF-to-IDE adapters, and frankly, they're a nightmare to get the right card to work with. Most modern CF cards don't work with them - at least not with my old Macs. I haven't bothered with trying them on old PCs.

Anyway, thanks!

 

[AlpineRaven]

Thanks for writing this up. I'm about to embark on the same mission with my "new" PowerBook 1400c/166. So it was great to find it laid out with instructions. I have a couple of CF-to-IDE adapters, and frankly, they're a nightmare to get the right card to work with. Most modern CF cards don't work with them - at least not with my old Macs. I haven't bothered with trying them on old PCs.

Anyway, thanks!

Yep thats one thing I just would walk away CF thing... I'd just go straight to 44pin to SD for 1400 - which one of my 1400 has already.
Cheers
AP

 

[avadondragon]

One very interesting thing, you cannot install OSX onto either those above as the installer will either get hanged up - it JUST won't install OSX. - Doesn't matter if it's 10.0 or 10.1 or 10.2, I have a feeling OSX likes proper ATA interface not PowerBook G3 PDQ's interface. Its not the CPU at fault as I changed it over to 266mhz and 300mhz CPU to eliminate it)

So, I thought I'd go to PowerBook G3 Lombard - with those HDDs in it hoping to get it installed from faster CD and DVD drive (even DVD disk)- Lombard did the same thing.. Recently I was talking to someone and I had a light bulb moment, PowerBook G3 Pismo - it already had experienced with IDE to SD and IDE to mSATA and m.2, it currently has mSATA in it with OSX no issues, so I decided to install OSX 10.2 Jaguar onto IDE to m.2 in Pismo, then take it out and put it in PDQ - viola problem solved which was the only workaround to do that.

I also use an m.2 to IDE card in my powerbook G3 PDQ. I had the same trouble installing OSX(tiger). For me it was some weird master/slave/cable select IDE conflict between the card and my DVD drive. I was curious if anyone else had experienced a similar problem with m.2 to IDE. Do you know if your DVD drive works properly with it installed?

 

[RandomDamage]

I also use an m.2 to IDE card in my powerbook G3 PDQ. I had the same trouble installing OSX(tiger). For me it was some weird master/slave/cable select IDE conflict between the card and my DVD drive. I was curious if anyone else had experienced a similar problem with m.2 to IDE. Do you know if your DVD drive works properly with it installed?

I've had two different G3 PDQ PowerBooks. Using an IDE to mSATA adapter, I could never get the internal optical drive (CDROM in my case) to be usable. I tried both the Ableconn IIDE-MSAT as well as a no-name IDE to mSATA adapter off of eBay. Tried a few different mSATA drives and none of them would allow the CDROM to be recognized. It was irritating to say the least. I ended up swapping in an IDE to CF adapter and that has been hassle free. CDROM works as it should.

 

[galgot]

Hi
Wanted to try these IDE to SD card adapters. Got two, with two 8Gb sd cards.
So far only tried it on a PB1400c. I first formated the card to FAT on a iMac G5 running Tiger with the Disk Utility.
Then once the adapter and card installed in the PB1400c , booting from a PCMCIA/CF adapter, formated/ partitioned the thing in two in HFS standard format. That cause I want to have System 7.6.1 and MacOS 8.6 on the same first partition (then I can select which system to boot on with System Picker). That scheme used to work all fine on the same machine with a spinning HD. And I wanted to try a old Linux on the second partition.
Here with the IDE to SD, strange thing... : while in booted in System 7.6.1, access to "disk" is super slow, just opening a new window takes 2 second lag. And copying/reading files very slow.
Booted in 8.6, feels normal, not lightning fast, but at least on par with an old spinning HD...
One thing tho, changing the theme in the Appearance Ctrl Panel, significantly slows every thing down ...

Well, so far these are my tries on a PB1400c only. Will try on a Wallstreet later.

 

[MacUp72]

Evening all!

PowerBook G3 PDQ (300mhz CPU but overclocked to 333mhz and also I do have BlueLogix 466mhz as well)

I wonder how you did that CPU overclocking? can you describe that or do you have photos/ link to that?
thanx