Mac SE accelerator card

[gpbonneau]

Hello,

I found an accelerator card for Mac SE, but without any marking on the board.

I need some help to identify it. Does anyone know who the manufacturer is ?





I tried it in my Mac SE and it works well, even without a driver.

I did some tests and it works better with a driver like GemStart 3.0 (I tried many but it seems it is the best... ?? ).

  

With MacBench 3.23 : (1=Mac Classic/Mac SE)



If anyone knows this board, with informations like picture, manual, driver, etc... 

 

[unity]

I have a few of these board. I think there is a thread about it some place. It probably is a Total Systems board actually, but I dont recall. I find it so weird someone would produce a board with no way to identify it.

 

[Bolle]

This looks like Total Systems. Not sure which model it is though. Yours looks like it has a video interface of some sort... or what else could the connector on the bottom be?

Also I think I spot VRAM on there right next to the Xilinx which are often used on video cards.

 

[MOS8_030]

Total Systems brochure here: https://archive.org/stream/TNM_68020-68030-68040_accelerator_family_Macintos_20171214_0077#page/n0/mode/1up

Looks like the software is ID'ing as a Gemini Integra.

 

[EvilCapitalist]

That's a good solid board to hang on to.  Something of note, since it has RAM onboard your SE will actually outperform a stock SE/30 because of the higher bus speed on your card (25MHz vs 16MHz).

 

[gpbonneau]

Thanks for your help and your answers

Total Systems brochure here: https://archive.org/stream/TNM_68020-68030-68040_accelerator_family_Macintos_20171214_0077#page/n0/mode/1up

Looks like the software is ID'ing as a Gemini Integra.

According to that brochure, it could be a Gemini 030/25MHz ??? but with video output ? Someone have info about Gemini Ultra/Integra ?

This looks like Total Systems. Not sure which model it is though. Yours looks like it has a video interface of some sort... or what else could the connector on the bottom be?

Also I think I spot VRAM on there right next to the Xilinx which are often used on video cards.

Yes, I think too, it is a video connector. If anyone know that, I am interested by some pics or description of pinout to make a cable.

I tried many other drivers : Warp030, ExtremeSystemsSE, Racer 030, Mobius 030, RailGun...

With Mobius 030, I can use 16Mb Ram on Accelerator board as a Ram Disk :



But no way to use it as memory for the system... ?

I tried to install Compact Virtual from Connectix, which add virtual memory to the system as a true 68030 Mac. 

  

But Virtual create a Swap file on the HD, like on 68030 Mac, not sure the RAM on the Accelerator board is used or not ??

Not easy to run these old cards without installation manual ;-)

That's a good solid board to hang on to.  Something of note, since it has RAM onboard your SE will actually outperform a stock SE/30 because of the higher bus speed on your card (25MHz vs 16MHz).

Yes  I try same MacBench version with my SE/30 (68030/16) :



SE with accelerator board 68030/25 + 68882 :



SE stock :



But I don't understand why the score of the HD on the Mac SE is lower with the accelerator board (0.72) than without (0.99) ???

Last remark, at the top right of the board there is a socket, empty, for a crystal oscillator, may be lost.

The board run without, but I don't know if it is necessary ? for the video output ?

 

[gpbonneau]

When I found the card, Ram and FPU sockets was empty.



I added 4 SIMM 4Mb and a 68882 chip (I have a 40MHz version only on hand).

The two jumpers on the board :



Video connector :

 

[MOS8_030]

That brochure mentions an "expansion port for for the addition of ethernet or video cards".

Which is likely what that connector is for.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Brochure's (c)1991, when Video was an option and this card probably hadn't hit the mail order channel as yet. The (c)1992 control panel appears to recognize your card as one that's more recent than any listed in the brochure.

I distinctly remember when Total Systems' Gemini branded version of these cards had provision for a video output option, but it's obviously a built-in feature of your card. The header connection for a DE-9 breakout connection is a dead giveaway. As Bolle said, those four vertical ICs look to be ZIP VRAM ICs. Can you get a shot of them or just read the legend off the side to confirm?

Mobius rings a bell as to who made the Video option. ISTR a couple of monitors being supported. One was the Panasonic M1900 TPD/NuBus card set I bought from Total Systems. That was a DE-9 connection as well. Panasonic also had an M1900 bundle that came with an SE interface card in the box.

Those connections are very bad news when it comes to wringing anything usable out of the cable without the dedicated monitor. Many were TTL, not even up to the Mac Video standard as it was being developed, much less VGA.

 

[gpbonneau]

I think too, video is a built in feature on this card. 

Ref of the 4 VRam :



If I understood well, not sure to be able to find a monitor to work with...

Is it possible, with this type of accelerator card, to add the memory of the card to that of the mother board to exceed the 4 MB of a standard Mac SE ?
So far I have been able to use the 16Mb on the card as RAM Disk but not as built-in memory for Mac OS. But, may be I don't use the right driver ...

 

[Bolle]

Found some more info on that card. Mobius did sell the exact same card as well at some point. The card does indeed not support Connectix Virtual to extend the system RAM.

You are limited to the RAMDisk. What you could try is to put the swap file onto that RAMDisk, not 100% sure if Virtual will let you do that but if it does it should speed things up a bit I guess.

The monitor output can drive a few different displays according to the Mobius display driver - Mobius One Page SE, Mobius Two Page Display SE, Mobius One Page Classic and Mobius Two Page Classic.

The output signal is not TTL, so if you have a capable multisync monitor you will get a picture out of it.

Some old japanese site has the pinouts for the video connector so you can make your own adapter to hook up a monitor.

Pins are counted like this:



Pin 1 is the video signal

Pin 2 is Hsync

Pin 3 is Vsync

Pins 8, 9 and 10 are connected to GND

All others pins are NC.

You can wire that up to a Mac monitor connector or even directly to a VGA connector. I would guess all those displays were black and white only so you might have to play with connecting the video signal to all three color signals on the VGA side but connecting it to only one color will do for a first test.

 

[gpbonneau]

Found some more info on that card. Mobius did sell the exact same card as well at some point. The card does indeed not support Connectix Virtual to extend the system RAM.

You are limited to the RAMDisk. What you could try is to put the swap file onto that RAMDisk, not 100% sure if Virtual will let you do that but if it does it should speed things up a bit I guess.

The monitor output can drive a few different displays according to the Mobius display driver - Mobius One Page SE, Mobius Two Page Display SE, Mobius One Page Classic and Mobius Two Page Classic.

The output signal is not TTL, so if you have a capable multisync monitor you will get a picture out of it.

Some old japanese site has the pinouts for the video connector so you can make your own adapter to hook up a monitor.

Pins are counted like this:

View attachment 22899

Pin 1 is the video signal

Pin 2 is Hsync

Pin 3 is Vsync

Pins 8, 9 and 10 are connected to GND

All others pins are NC.

You can wire that up to a Mac monitor connector or even directly to a VGA connector. I would guess all those displays were black and white only so you might have to play with connecting the video signal to all three color signals on the VGA side but connecting it to only one color will do for a first test.

Thank you very much Bolle to have clearly identified this card.

I tried many drivers and options with no more result... no way to add the accelerator board RAM to the system memory. Confirmed by your post.

With Mobius driver, I tried too to put the swap file in the RAM Disk with the Control Panel of Virtual, that can be done.  

But, at the next startup, Virtual is loaded before the RAM Disk is ready and don't find the right location for the swap file :-(

I will try again (now I am sure about the driver).

Good news about video, I will try to do a wire, and some test, and send you a feedback ;-)

I also have understood (I think) why the score of the HD is bad with the accelerator board regarding without.

The PDS (roughly) is the CPU bus, and the accelerator board saturates it and all other that goes through the bus, like SCSI, is slowed down (Thank's Dandu if you read me).

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Missed that, I don't think that's the reason. During a disk read or write there wouldn't be much else going on, if anything, to saturate the bus on the SE. I think a more likely reason would be that MacBench isn't so much giving a discrete readout of actual disk I/O performance as weighting it against CPU performance to identify a serious system bottleneck. That would not be the case for the stock SE which appears to be the baseline performance figure from that stack of .99s.

Never did much in terms of benchmarking as the figures don't translate directly into real world performance. They use different criteria/algorithms and can be chosen for the resulting data putting a product in the best light for advertising purposes. I'd run a few other benchmarks for comparison, maybe someone can recommend a test utility that's specifically for disk performance.

The 8MHz bus of the SE puts it at a serious disadvantage. That's one reason the test results are all over the place for the accelerated SE. Things like this makes me thing a benchmarking discussion would make a great thread in Hacks.

Graf = Graphics, but what does New PR signify in French?

 

[gpbonneau]

Graf = Graphics, but what does New PR signify in French?

Thank you for your explanation, I think you are right...

Sorry, it is not MacBench, I do the test with Speedometer 3 (in english). PR is Performance Rating (overall performance compare to a Classic)

For example, more windows with the test of a PowerBook 150 with Speedometer 4 (compare to Quadra 605). My english is so bad ? ;-)  

 

[Verault]

I literally just bought this card (even started another thread):



My board came without cpu/fpu so I have to buy them. Can you please tell me where I can get the gemstart or mobius drivers for this board?

 

[MOS8_030]

Look here: http://vintageapple.org/macdrivers/accel.shtml

 

[gpbonneau]

Look here: http://vintageapple.org/macdrivers/accel.shtml

Yes, I found Mobius driver at this place.

And Compact Virtual here :

http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/71more.html

And that works very well now  

The problem was about french localisation of System 7.

With System 7.0.1 US all is OK, with Mobius driver and with Compact Virtual loaded.



The total memory is 20Mb : 16Mb on accelerator board + 4Mb on motherboard.

With Compact Virtual, about 16Mb (max) are allocated to the system memory (RAM on the accelerator board ?) and the rest, about 4Mb (on MoBo ?) to a RAM disk.

And I don't find any swap file on the hard disk... ;-)  

-> Mobius 030 (v4.99) + Mobius Display + Compact Virtual 3.0.2 in System Folder/Control Panels

-> Mobius 7.01 Fix + Mobius Sound + MobiusInit in System Folder/Extensions

When Compact Virtual is loaded Mobius 030 control panel is de-activated, no way to open it (may be to avoid conflict with parameters setup...)

When you change the size of Memory in Compact Virtual, automatically the rest (to 20Mb) is allocated to the RAM Disk.

Next step : To do a cable to try video output, and test Mobius Display ;-)  



Be aware, Verault, if you put Mobius Display control panel in the right place in System folder, change setting before to restart.

Original setup is Two Page Display with menubar on external screen, that means... nothing on SE screen at restart.