Help requested re IIci

[Shootist]

OK, I just purchased a IIci and it worked fine for a day. After copying the hard drive, and replacing the PRAM battery (It booted up fine with a dead one but I like the time and date to hold) I was looking around on the extensions etc and I found one called, IIRC, Inventory, or something like that. Out of curiosity I clicked on it and a window popped up and the hard drive started running as if being read. After a few seconds the computer froze. The only thing displayed was a ghosted icon or image that could have been a corrupted mouse pointer, but it was not clear enough to tell even that.

So, hit the off switch then switch it back on, and nothing. There a faint single short tone reminiscent of the startup tone, the disk light and power light come on, the PSU fan is running fine, and that's it. If I press the reset button on the front the screen lights up. The first few times it lit up white, then it changed to blue, and now green. Other than that it's as dead as Elvis. I hitched up an external hard disk, made no difference. I disconnected the internal drive and left the external drive running and tried again. Nada.

I'm running out of ideas. The advice of the cognoscenti is requested.

 

[Elfen]

Shut down the IIci and remove the battery to erase the PRAM. Give if a half hour or so for the PRAM to die out. Out the battery back in.

Turn on the Mac IIci while holding command-option-P and R to reset the PRAM.  It will BONG again and again until after you let go of the buttons. I let it bong 3 times but one (2- the boot up and 1 more for PRAM reset) is only needed. After you get go of the keys, hold down the left Shift Key to boot with the Extensions off.

That should get your Mac IIci running again. When it is, go into the system folder and delete that damn Inventory extension and empty the trash. Search the system for preferences and control panels that goes with it, along with the hard drive with any app or data, and trash them all.

If it still does not boot, you are going to need to boot from a floppy, as that Inventory program corrupted your system file. It may not be a virus, but there were some programs that screwed up the system in a bad way. Norton for System 6 was like this for any System 7 Macs - it corrupted the system badly. But Norton for System 7 was fine for System 6. Go figure.

 

[Shootist]

Thanks for that. It's in progress and if it works I will owe you much beer..

 

[Shootist]

Nope! Entirely as before I'm afraid. Nothing other than a black screen. No sad Mac, nuthin. For lack of anything better to do I removed the rom jumper. Still nothing except that the screen was now a bright green. Shut it down, put the jumper back on and switched on, same as before.

 

[Shootist]

Just took the RAM out to reseat it. While it was out I tried booting up again, same result, i.e. none to speak of. So, I tried it with half the ram, no change. Odd thing, as an aside, it has eight RAM modules, but from memory the system indicated there was 12 meg on board. I can't do the maths on that one yet.

At the moment it looks like I've bought some RAM chips, an 80 meg hard drive with some useful looking software on it, a floppy disc of uncertain functionality, and a big cardboard box. Bummer!

 

[CC_333]

Have you recapped it? If not, you really should, as that could explain why it isn't working.

c

 

[Shootist]

No, I haven't recapped it. It seemed odd that it's just stopped so I want to investigate all options before I risk wrecking the board. I have to say that the board seems in good condition. I've examined the files on the disk image I copied and the latest item seems to have been last accessed around January 2000 so it's been quiet for a while. If all else fails I'll give recapping a go. Is there a guide as to what caps to change?

 

[techknight]

Yup. Caps caps caps!

 

[trag]

I would guess that the "inventory" extension was just a coincidence -- a red herring. 

At worst, software could erase or corrupt the hard drive.  A Macintosh with a bad hard drive should still power on properly, perform the POST (power on self test), sound a proper chime/chord, and generate the initial video screens.   Then if there was a missing or corrupt hard drive, one would get either a flashing disk icon with a question mark, or an attempt to boot the OS which fails in some interesting manner.

The behaviour you report sounds like it fails to make a proper start-up sound and never displays meaningful video.    This is indicative of a hardware problem of some kind.

You've done the easy tests of removing and reseating the RAM and such.

The only other thing I would try, if you have not already, is to completely disconnect both the internal hard drive and also any external drives and also unplug the floppy cable.   Then try to boot up.   

If the machine's hardware is working properly, you should get a gray screen with a small disk icon with a question mark in it.

Also, double check that your RAM matches.  You should have four identical modules in each bank of four.  If you're using the built-in video, then you must have RAM installed in Bank A.  Try just one set of RAM in Bank A.  Then the other set.   Then, if you have a video card available, try one set in Bank B, then the other set.

Twelve megabytes is indeed puzzling.   That would suggest one set of four 1MB SIMMS, and one set of four 2MB SIMMs.  However, IIRC, 2MB SIMMs are not supported by the IIci.  I don't think that 2MB support came along until the IIsi, but I may be misremembering.   Anyway, if you have not tested it with the suspected 2MB SIMMs removed, it may be that they are causing the problem

Eventually, either  you get a nice gray screen with flashing question mark, or you conclude that the hardware has a flaw.

You should be getting a good start-up bong/chord, but it is also possible that the sound circuitry has been damaged by leaking caps.

Most likely the logic board needs to be recapped and thoroughly cleaned.  Don't forget the cleaning part.

After you've removed the old capacitors and cleaned the pads of old solder, take some time with a soft or medium toothbrush and your favorite cleanser/solvent (I like spray on flux remover, then 91% isopropyl alcohol, then distilled water, but opinions vary) and thoroughly clean the board.    Goo leaked from the capacitors can be nearly invisible.   It's a bit like the residue you'd have after someone spills a cola and it dries.

Even if bad caps are not the current problem, if the system has not had its capacitors replaced, it will, probably sooner rather than later.    My IIci developed leaky capacitors back around 1996.

 

[Shootist]

Well, all drives disconnected, nothing has changed. Looks like a recapping job. Nothing to lose there I think.

As far as home much ram is on board, I mistyped it. There's 13 meg according to the computer.

Can anyone direct me at what capacitors require changing, and what values, and maybe how?

 

[Juliet Elysa]

The "how" part of a recap involves soldering. I haven't tried it yet (will soon), but several people have posted great advice and videos on this thread. If you don't want to do it yourself send uniserver a PM, he does recaps for a quite reasonable price.

 

[Shootist]

I've been looking around at capacitors to purchase. There are many types, Tantalum, polyester, ceramic, and all sorts of other esoteric stuff. Given that the tantalum ones look a pig to solder on, I wonder about the other options. Any comments?

P.S.

You're doing great! Thanks to all.

 

[uniserver]

 

[uniserver]

You can use Tantilum, OEM SMT, Radials (make sure to lay them on their side), MLCC Ceramic (I like 1206 case), Organic Polymers. 

the best way to remove the old caps is with a hot air tool.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YH-878AD-SMD-ESD-SAFE-2-IN-1-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-/171637820034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27f6694a82

this tool looks pretty nice, its a 2 n 1.

47uf caps are 16v

10uf caps are 16v

220uf cap is 16v - but i would install 25v or 35v

470uf caps are 16v - but i would install 25v or 35v

 

[Shootist]

That's great, thanks. Now, another question. I've looked around the internet and seen quite a few ways of removing the capacitors. The one that takes my fancy is a bloke using side cutters to cut the pot in half before using a soldering iron to remove each part. Any thoughts?

 

[trag]

That's great, thanks. Now, another question. I've looked around the internet and seen quite a few ways of removing the capacitors. The one that takes my fancy is a bloke using side cutters to cut the pot in half before using a soldering iron to remove each part. Any thoughts?

Again, opinions vary, and several different methods seem to work well for different people.

Keep in mind that if you pull on the caps or their leads before the solder is fully melted, you could lift the copper pad to which they are soldered from the circuit board.  This is bad, though not completely catastrophic.

If you use the cutting method, be careful, and gentle, and make sure you don't lift on the cap while cutting, nor bend it over, or otherwise apply lifting, bending, twisting, torquing force to it which could lift the underlying pad.

Once the cap can is cut off it is relatively easy to desolder the pins one at a time.

My preferred method is to use two soldering pencils simultaneously and just heat both leads util the cap comes off.   This has its own hazards, as if the solder does not melt quickly, sometimes folks get impatient and either grind the solder pencil tip(s) into the pad, damaging it, or they use the two pencils like tweezers and try to pull the cap off before the solder is melted.

But with patience, the two pencil method seems the least hazardous to me.

Every method requires patience and an awareness that applying the wrong force could be damaging.

 

[Shootist]

Thanks again. Someone at work today suggested cutting the cans with a Dremel type cutting disc. That sounds viable if I can work out a system that ensures the tool doesn't run away with itself.

 

[bigmessowires]

I recently had a IIci with very similar symptoms. Pressing the power button would maybe give like half a second of life, or maybe do nothing at all. The problem was failed capacitors in the startup circuit on the logic board. Uniserver recapped the board, and now it starts up with no problems.

I've never tried it, but there's supposed to be a way to "jump start" a IIci whose startup circuit has failed this way, described here: https://mac68k.info/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=273You could give that a shot, to confirm whether the startup circuit is actually the problem, before investing time in recapping.

Edit: sorry, that link is for the PSU itself, not the startup circuit on the logic board. I can't seem to find a reference to the technique now, but I think it involved a jumper wire from the logic board battery to somewhere in that circuit. Maybe someone else will remember what I'm talking about.

 

[trag]

Edit: sorry, that link is for the PSU itself, not the startup circuit on the logic board. I can't seem to find a reference to the technique now, but I think it involved a jumper wire from the logic board battery to somewhere in that circuit. Maybe someone else will remember what I'm talking about.

I remember what  you're writing about, but not where an explanation of the technique is.

I just wanted to jump in and mention that if those caps have failed, still replace all the electrolytic caps on the board.   The power supply issue is the canary for the rest of the caps.  

Trying to figure out which vias or traces were eaten by capacitor goo is not fun, so best to deal with it sooner than later.   Well, somebody probably thinks it's fun, but for most people it's kind of tedious, I think.