| Author |
Topic |
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MacTO
New Member
Canada
60 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Nov 2003 : 21:29:38
quote:
OS/2 failed because of lack of support from IBM. Sometimes they would spend alot on advertising and others not a cent.
One minute support means standing behind a product. The next it means advertising. Yes, IBM did a terrible job at advertising OS/2. OTOH, I didn't see advertising from Microsoft until the release of Windows 95. Even then, their advertising was secondary to the media frenzy. Only since the release of XP has their advertising become agressive (and somewhat hilarious, IMHO). Yet IBM was good at providing technical support, and that is what the 99.9% uptime depends upon. quote:
Even most IBM pc's didnt have OS/2 installed at the factory.
That would be a slight understatement. But I would like to point out that you are talking about expensive mainframes and 99.9% uptime one minute, and PC operating systems the next. Corporations may deploy huge numbers of PCs, but they're also going to install their own operating system and software. (The OS may be identical to what the machine shipped with, but it is more convenient to install everything on one machine then copy that image to every other workstation.) It would be the consumer and small business who depends upon preinstalled software and oatmeal (ie. restore) CDs. 
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cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms
USA
4679 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2003 : 22:03:25
Quite the moody one tonight eh unknown?I was really telling MacTO, but hey, whoever gets offended by what I write, is really not what I'm looking at... and Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised, if at any given point, MS has more people working on their OS than apple does. Maybe not 10 times as many, for just one OS... but I didn't just say "one OS" AND windows is ONE OS, with three different versions being supported... Actually, there's a whole'freakin'lotmore'versions'than'just'the'three'you'mentioned'that'have'support.... Windows XP Pro
Windows XP Home
Windows 2k Pro
Windoes 2k (Servers)
SmallBusiness Server 2k
SmallBusiness Server 2k3
Windows Server 2003
Windows XP MCE
Windows XP Tablet
Windows XP CE
Windows XP for Cell Phoens and PDAs
Windows CE 3.0
Windows 98/ME (do these really deserve to belisted seperately??) and now that you mention it... Windows XP Itanium
Windows Server 2003 Itanium Don't they still support NT4? NT4 workstation
NT4 server
NT4 workstation (times three, PowerPC, SPARC, IRIX... and there's probably more supported platforms...) Plus all that other stuff... but you'll note, that Microsoft has a WHOLE lot more employees than apple.... In addition, Microsoft doesn't do hardware. They don't design the controllers and keyboards and mice, they don't build them. Microsoft isn't building a 1U server, Microsoft isn't transitioning it's entire product line to a new processor, Microsoft hasn't been giving us beautiful industrial design for the past 20 or howevermany years that Apple has. Has Microsoft been overhauling a complete line of desktop, notebook and server computers every few months? running a trade show or three? does Microsoft have that dedicated staff for usergroups and such... Apple does. I have NO idea where that was going, I dont even know WHAT any of this has to do with "the mac bloodline going thin" and I must say, that it seems to be. You know what I saw on the switch page today? a 12 year old talked about "I might be the next speilburg because of you guys!" you know what's stupid about that? HE WAS ALREADY USING MACS!!! Quite frankly, I think that the mac evangalists can be complete and total jerks, idiots, they can be rude, and they have no feelings sometimes. All people are like this, especially when they feel for something, and don't want to change that thing, and such. It's the stuff like this, sometimes, that makes me want to start using an SGI as my primary computer. An SGI from 1993, with 64bit technology, will do every single thing that my TiBook will do. with twice as many bits! with SGI, the liscence to use the latest version of the OS is conceptually attached to the machine, meaning that you're always covered basically... and then, there's the fact that I don't do any mainstream stuff with my mac anyway... alls I'd need to do is compile OpenOffice for the SGI, or even keep an older pc around to run word on. and no, I'm not going to try to run Office XP on a win 98 machine. I said it before, and I'll say it again, stuff like that is stupid. The great thing about SGI, I'll say it again, is that those machines don't ever seem to go out of date. Just to be safe though, I'll buy one that's not too old... I don't think I'm going to post in this thread again, because this is the kind of thread that gets Cory into trouble. with the administration, the mods, the other people and sometimes, with himself. I say something, and here comes the whole MLA, going the other way, running me over. I think different. Away from the masses. Away from everything. Not think different, like you think different, because you think exactly the same as every Windozer™ ever made... I think OPEN. (not open source, because alls open source means "I have an idea, now you do it for me, without getting paid") Official 68k videographer
Official MLA TourGuide
Editor of the MLAgazine
"I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life" |
Unknown_K
Full Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2003 : 01:26:38
quote:
quote:
OS/2 failed because of lack of support from IBM. Sometimes they would spend alot on advertising and others not a cent.
One minute support means standing behind a product. The next it means advertising. Yes, IBM did a terrible job at advertising OS/2. OTOH, I didn't see advertising from Microsoft until the release of Windows 95. Even then, their advertising was secondary to the media frenzy. Only since the release of XP has their advertising become agressive (and somewhat hilarious, IMHO). Yet IBM was good at providing technical support, and that is what the 99.9% uptime depends upon. quote:
Even most IBM pc's didnt have OS/2 installed at the factory.
That would be a slight understatement. But I would like to point out that you are talking about expensive mainframes and 99.9% uptime one minute, and PC operating systems the next. Corporations may deploy huge numbers of PCs, but they're also going to install their own operating system and software. (The OS may be identical to what the machine shipped with, but it is more convenient to install everything on one machine then copy that image to every other workstation.) It would be the consumer and small business who depends upon preinstalled software and oatmeal (ie. restore) CDs.
I dont think MS did alot of tv advertising but they had alot of print adds, flogging the office suite mostly. I looked through a stack of 93 era PC world mags and they have multiple multi-page adds in each one. there was 1 one page add for os/2 in the NOV 93 edition for os/2 2.1 even though there was a major NT vs OS/2 article in it. Support to me means advertising your product to keep it viable along with using it on your own brand of pc's. How would it look for MS to use linux on their xbox? In the adds for IBM pc's there were only 2 models that shipped with OS/2 presinstalled while the rest had Windows/DOS. I agree corperations dictate what software they will run to their hardware vender but most places ran dos and OS/2 did it natively so its not a dealbreaker.
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Unknown_K
Full Member
USA
602 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2003 : 01:47:01
quote:
Quite the moody one tonight eh unknown?I was really telling MacTO, but hey, whoever gets offended by what I write, is really not what I'm looking at... and Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised, if at any given point, MS has more people working on their OS than apple does. Maybe not 10 times as many, for just one OS... but I didn't just say "one OS" AND windows is ONE OS, with three different versions being supported... Actually, there's a whole'freakin'lotmore'versions'than'just'the'three'you'mentioned'that'have'support.... Windows XP Pro
Windows XP Home
Windows 2k Pro
Windoes 2k (Servers)
SmallBusiness Server 2k
SmallBusiness Server 2k3
Windows Server 2003
Windows XP MCE
Windows XP Tablet
Windows XP CE
Windows XP for Cell Phoens and PDAs
Windows CE 3.0
Windows 98/ME (do these really deserve to belisted seperately??) and now that you mention it... Windows XP Itanium
Windows Server 2003 Itanium Don't they still support NT4? NT4 workstation
NT4 server
NT4 workstation (times three, PowerPC, SPARC, IRIX... and there's probably more supported platforms...) Plus all that other stuff... but you'll note, that Microsoft has a WHOLE lot more employees than apple.... In addition, Microsoft doesn't do hardware. They don't design the controllers and keyboards and mice, they don't build them. Microsoft isn't building a 1U server, Microsoft isn't transitioning it's entire product line to a new processor, Microsoft hasn't been giving us beautiful industrial design for the past 20 or howevermany years that Apple has. Has Microsoft been overhauling a complete line of desktop, notebook and server computers every few months? running a trade show or three? does Microsoft have that dedicated staff for usergroups and such... Apple does. I have NO idea where that was going, I dont even know WHAT any of this has to do with "the mac bloodline going thin" and I must say, that it seems to be. You know what I saw on the switch page today? a 12 year old talked about "I might be the next speilburg because of you guys!" you know what's stupid about that? HE WAS ALREADY USING MACS!!! Quite frankly, I think that the mac evangalists can be complete and total jerks, idiots, they can be rude, and they have no feelings sometimes. All people are like this, especially when they feel for something, and don't want to change that thing, and such. It's the stuff like this, sometimes, that makes me want to start using an SGI as my primary computer. An SGI from 1993, with 64bit technology, will do every single thing that my TiBook will do. with twice as many bits! with SGI, the liscence to use the latest version of the OS is conceptually attached to the machine, meaning that you're always covered basically... and then, there's the fact that I don't do any mainstream stuff with my mac anyway... alls I'd need to do is compile OpenOffice for the SGI, or even keep an older pc around to run word on. and no, I'm not going to try to run Office XP on a win 98 machine. I said it before, and I'll say it again, stuff like that is stupid. The great thing about SGI, I'll say it again, is that those machines don't ever seem to go out of date. Just to be safe though, I'll buy one that's not too old... I don't think I'm going to post in this thread again, because this is the kind of thread that gets Cory into trouble. with the administration, the mods, the other people and sometimes, with himself. I say something, and here comes the whole MLA, going the other way, running me over. I think different. Away from the masses. Away from everything. Not think different, like you think different, because you think exactly the same as every Windozer™ ever made... I think OPEN. (not open source, because alls open source means "I have an idea, now you do it for me, without getting paid") Official 68k videographer
Official MLA TourGuide
Editor of the MLAgazine
"I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life"
Not sure what crawled up your rear, I wasnt offended by what you said, just pointing out they probably dont have 10x the people doing 1/3 the work as you claimed. I believe the only major thing thats usefull in a 64bit system is the larger amount of memory supported for db models and other very high end modeling, most users at this stage really dont need it. Anyway, I figure most of the advertisement from apple, MS, and others isnt aimed at me since I think its all crap. I just find the software I want to run and get the OS and hardware that will run it. Who makes the hardware or OS doesnt really matter to me. I really dont have a loyalty to any company that charges me for their products. Sometimes apple people think I am sticking up for MS and Intel, sometimes MS people think I am a mac nut, same with sega vs sony people, nvidia vs 3dfx or now ati, etc. I just have a habit of pointing out the views of the other side when conversations go one way or stray from the facts too much. In my house you will find alot of different machines that I use for different tasks. I like to see whats good about a different platform and whats bad about it. I read alot of webpages from people with different views. The only reason I dont have an SGI or Linux system is that no software I want to play around with at this moment runs on them. The OS is just the glue that gets the app to work with the hardware, I dont get all warm inside over an OS just like a hammer to me is just another tool. I guess the windozer namecalling means you dont think as different or open as you say.
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Clinton
Full Member
USA
700 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2003 : 14:31:53
without reading this through in its entirety, I can already tell that we have a flame war in the making. SAVE IT, and SPARE US THE MADNESS!!I understand that you all have valid points, but lets all agree to disagree, k? *ducks and runs* CCC Commander
Promotion: 19 Mar 2003 13:06:30
68k Macs Rescued: 2 Pluses, a 512KE, a Classic II, a Q650, a Q660AV, an SE/30, and a MacII
Contraband rescued: Power Computing PowerBase 200, a PM 8600/300, and a PM8500/180
Apple //s rescued: Apple //e |
MacTO
New Member
Canada
60 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2003 : 16:55:26
quote:
Support to me means advertising your product to keep it viable along with using it on your own brand of pc's.
I have found that heavy advertisers tend to make mediocre products. Not the worse, to be sure, but not the best either. Advertising portrays the product how the company wants to. If that image includes standing behind their product, simply by the act of advertising, then all the better. As for IBM not shipping OS/2 on their own machines, or using it on many machines in their showrooms, I'll admit that it looks bad. Alas, in the game to make the biggest profits one division will often suffer at the whim of another. IBM's PC division clearly thought (and was probably correct) that most consumers wanted Windows. So Windows it was.
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Alien
Junior Member
Netherlands
269 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2003 : 01:06:39
quote:
[...] I would like to point out that you are talking about expensive mainframes and 99.9% uptime one minute, and PC operating systems the next.
Um... There's a handy column to the next of each post that has the poster's name in it. I suggest you pay more attention to it. ,xtG
.tsooJ --
who | grep -i blonde | date
cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger
mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount
sleep |
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Mac bloodline gone thin?
68k of the Week: kastegir's PowerBook 180.