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Topic |
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Da Penguin
Senior Member
USA
1094 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Sep 2003 : 19:04:26
I meant 4.1, not 5  It...sorta works. I open the BeOS booter program, and it makes my screen go black, and it never comes up with the Be logo. Although, it might be that this machine considers itself a 7500, a 7600 AND a WGS8550 (or something, i forget off hand what WGS model), and I honestly forget what part is from where....oh well. If someone wants to trade me a 9500 or 9500 MP barebones for this fully functioning 7ish hundred mac... ~The Penguin **| Want free 68kmla email? Drop me a line |**
| Captain, Intelligence Operations / Space Cowboy |
| "The choice has been made, but now you must understand it" | |
Fedorenko
Junior Member
Australia
463 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2003 : 01:43:15
quote:
Fedorenko:
If you know exactly what machine you wanted, you shoudln't have asked us. Plain and simple, I'm almost certain that there's people here who have used BeOS, or who plan to like Gothikon.
I'm included in those people, and certainly would wonder why the 8600, AND the 9600 are both unsupported, but the 7300 IS supported. These three machines, are the three machines of nearly exact same era, speedinesses and such, but the desktops never made it to Mach5-ness.If you really want to be unique, become a BeOS developer, make "OpenBeOS" (which is NOT! what I was talking about....) work on the 8600/9600. If you want to be unique, get a BeBOX... it's got dual 603e or ev (forgot which) processors running at about 160/180 MHz, IIRC, it's pretty much standard hardware in there, but with some really cool twists (well blinkenlights is one of the funnesses.
Cory5412: Here is the thing, I didnt know what machine to get, hence I did post here. And like most things, there was a restricted list of options, hence, I gave a list of machines that would be suitable. Many people helped me in this regard, and I thank them for that help. Or, are you claiming I made this thread soley to gain post count, because if that is what you are getting at, I assure you, that I woud not do that, unlike some people around here. To go over this once again, At the time the 8600, and the 9600, Apple had decided to purchase NeXT and its technologies inorder for it to create its new OS. This decision, left Be, which was the second in the possibility of purchase, in a lurch, as Apple and It, while never been on good terms with eachother (hence, PowerComputing machines are fully compatable, exluding the G3 based ones, and in fact, PowerComputing was the first MacOS based machine to run BeOS), were now barely on speaking terms with eachother. Hence, Apple no longer gave Be the technical documents required to make BeOS compatable with the 8600 and 9600 machines, above a certain speed (250/300mhz I belive).
I dont want to be unique, the word was different. All I wanted to see was BeOS PPC, compared to my current installs of x86 BeOS. May I ask then, what Opensource BeOS are you talking about. Blue Eyed OS? BeOSMax? Cosmoe? I would be intereasted to see what you are talking about. Now, programming a PPC OpenBeOS, I am not capable of doing such a task, due to my limited experience with programming, and the PPC instruction set.
Getting a BeBox isnt exactly unique. The peformance of the Rev 8 BeBox, which is dual 120mhz 603e, is not all that great, especially with BeOS 5.03 Pro. Though the geekport is quite an intereasting concept.
Good ideas usually are created by crazy people, go figure...
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Gothikon
Full Member
Australia
537 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2003 : 02:42:28
At the risk of flogging a dead horse the final descision comes down to you and there is very little to choose between the machines apart from form factor and upgradeability.The Performas are OK and when running the Mac OS can use a cheap TV tuner. After that it comes down to PMs and a desktop or tower. All the desktops have 3 PCI slots and a few DIMM slots, the tower have 6 PCI slots a couple more bays and take up more space. Just about all of those machines can swap processor cards around which is why there is little to choose in terms of performance, if you did buy one with a slow processor even a fast 604 would be a cheap upgrade. Once you have decided on desktop or tower it's just a case of getting what is available at the time. Like I said there is not a lot of difference between any of the PMs seeing as they can all be upgraded pretty much equally and there is no reason not to. --------
LC 2, LC 3, Q605, Perf 638, Colour Classic (160 603e) 6100, 7200, PTP 225 (Quad 604), PM 9600, G4 Cube |
cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms
USA
4679 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2003 : 06:24:02
If that's what you wanted, to see how BeOS rwhatever works on a PowerPC, as compared with that of an Intel. I'll do a basic lil. rundown for you.I've run BeOS R5 pro on a Dell OptiPlex GX1. It was a 200MHz Pentium MMX, with S3 Trio graphics, and Crystal Audio, It had a 3 GB IDE hard drive. It had 64b of RAM as well.
My Power Macintosh 7300 (probably the machine I'd suggest, and the machine that I did say I suggested, along with the 6500 and 8600(weather or not it'll run BeOS) had a 200MHz 604e processor, 64mb of RAM, and currently has a 3.0 and a 1.2 GB hard drive. Sadly, I believe that I have to say that the PC had several advantages. First off, BeOS is probably fully capable of using the MMX technology in the PC, and it's quite possible that the Crystal Audio chipset took some of the pull of playing several MP3's simultaneously from the processor. There was more software available for BeOS on the PC, an amazing selection I must implore, and with the macintosh, ANY macintosh I've used it with I'm afraid to say, there is a slight little thing that happens to the mouse after about 4 or 5 hours of intermittent use, the mouse starts gaining a lag. You'll move it and stop, and to get it to where you want to go, you have to pull it BACK toward you, and you have to kind of hover above a button to get the mouse in just the right place, and the click will only activate when you move the mouse. THAT is very aggrivating, especially when I'm trying to do something important. I never had that problem with the PC, instead, the PC version had a bit of troubles each time started up, it'd start off a bit shaky. Other than that, BeOS5 and BeOS5 (intel and PowerPC respectively) look exactly the same in nearly every respect of their graphical interface. Other than that, I did not think of you for "postcount padding" I was frustrated, because you asked what we thought you wanted, and during the majority of suggestions, shot them down with reasons why BeOS won't work... (or so it seemed.) I was going to look for some "technical" type info on the 9600, but I don't think I will. Personally, I see no reason why the BeOS wont' work on a 9600 or 8600, have you ever tried it, is there anyone here who has? because the only thing I can think of that apple changed was the bus speed and the processor, from a 604e to a 604ev... Maybe someone who has an 8600 or 9600 can try it out? I bet it would be cool, I'm not Be Inc. and I'm not Apple though, I somehow doubt that Apple would have changed it JUST so that BeOS wouldn't work... because the 9600 and 8600 are still the same architechture as the other macs of that era, including 8/9500 and the 7300. http://www.beosonline.de/
THIS is the project I've heard about for the PC, you implied that there was one for powerPC, or that it would be possible to start one, that's what I suggested for you. Official 68k videographer
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"I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life" |
G4from128k
Full Member
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2003 : 08:08:39
I suspect that Fedorenko got his list from Be, such as this mirror copy:http://www.beatjapan.org/mirror/ www.be.com/support/guides/beosreadylist_ppc.html (just combine the urls by removing the space, cuz Snitz borks the addy otherwise) It explicitly states that some 8600 and 9600 logic boards do not work (all of the faster processor versions and some of the slower processor ones too). And it sounds as if Be themselves did the testing. If I were Fedorenko, that would rule out the 8600 and 9600. I'd probably even avoid the 9600 MP because who knows if a used 9600 MP is not just one of the incompatible single processor 9600s with an MP processor board installed in it. As to why BeOS should be incompatible with the some 8600s or 9600s, that is because operating systems are very sensitive to even minor changes in the logic board. Apple might have made a minor upgrade, fixed a hardware bug, or substituted a better/cheaper part somewhere. Without technical documentation on this change, it would be impossible for Be to change their code to make it compatible with the new design variant. Its the same reason that A/UX only runs on a limited subset of 68ks. G4From128k by Day: Mild-Mannered Engineer and Trapeze(tm) Artist
by Night: Colonel of Truth, Justice, and the Macintosh Way
Reserve Officer in 68kMLA Cantankerous Coot Contingent Edited by - G4from128k on 05 Sep 2003 08:15:19 |
Fedorenko
Junior Member
Australia
463 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2003 : 22:26:43
Exactly right G4from128k.Good ideas usually are created by crazy people, go figure... |
Alien
Junior Member
Netherlands
269 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2003 : 04:41:36
quote:
[...] Without technical documentation on this change, it would be impossible for Be to change their code to make it compatible with the new design variant.
Impossible? Ill will, more like. When Steve Jobs returned to Apple, his policy was that, as far as Apple are concerned, Macs run the Mac OS, and nothing else. That meant they stopped supplying BeOS with the technical specs they had hitherto provided them with. Be's reaction was to claim that without this documentation, they had no way to make the BeOS work on these machines. Funny how the BSDs and several Linux flavours run just fine on them, though. Jobs just wanted to piss Gassee off, and vice versa. ,xtG
.tsooJ --
who | grep -i blonde | date
cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger
mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount
sleep |
The Balance Of Judgement
Senior Member
Ivory Coast
1006 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2003 : 18:22:30
Computer Companies are complete *******s.They are egotistical, arrogant and elitest snobs. At least all the big ones that do anything.
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q950
Junior Member
USA
135 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2003 : 19:01:57
Does anybody know if Be or anyone else tried getting BeOS to work on an RS/6000. I used to have one, which I never really did much with for lack of a monitor cable. It was based off of a 601 PPC proc at 60 MHz. I know that NT can run on such machines, but I have never seen one do it. Would have been cool to to get Macos to run on one of those with some kind of toolbox emulator gizmo.Logan Quadra 950, Workgroup Server 9150, Performa 6400, Powerbook 2300c, 4x Quadra 700's, iBook |
Fedorenko
Junior Member
Australia
463 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2003 : 21:18:59
601 Proc is a no no when it comes to BeOSGood ideas usually are created by crazy people, go figure... |
cory5412
68KMLA Comrade-in-Arms
USA
4679 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2003 : 21:04:27
Windows NT 4.0 is cool.I've never really known the OS to be so much "attune" to the motherboard design... Intel operating systems seem to be compatible "across the line" other than the fact that BeOS used to be unable to do things with AMD/Cyrix/IBM processors, and some newer "major" hardware was unsupported. are you talking about a single component on the motherboard? or an architechture? I can understand if it was a major change, or an architechture change... Investigating how to get it to work would probably be a great idea though, obviously Linux works on those machines. Official 68k videographer
Official MLA TourGuide
Editor of the MLAgazine
"I'm just a normal computer geek who somehow landed a social life" |
Fedorenko
Junior Member
Australia
463 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2003 : 17:08:18
It probably could be done now, Apple has probably slacked off being secret about the exact specifications of the older machines.Good ideas usually are created by crazy people, go figure... |
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