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SE/30 wants to initialize all Floppy disks?

Recently I needed a Floppy disk for a file transfer on my SE/30... Upon inserting a brand new nos maxell 1.44MB disk, I click initialize and it whirs and everything, then says the disk is damaged! Tried a second... same thing! And a third with stuff already on it... wants to initialize!

Then tried an 800k disk. Again, same thing...

Could it be a dirty head? I think I just cleaned them when it was apart last month.

 
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It is totally possible to have several bad disks these days... although it's far more likely that it's the drive.  I have one that did something like that, swapped out and all was well.  I have noticed that certain machines in my collection seem to write disks far better than others... for example, I made a set of 6.0.8 disks for installing onto the Plus I just got.  Formatting disks on my G3 and imaging them failed about 75% of the time.  These were well used disks but I discovered that formatting them on my other Plus, then imaging them on the G3, worked fine and I ended up with only one disk that just didn't work.

 
Could it be a dirty head? I think I just cleaned them when it was apart last month.
One bad floppy can 'infect' your drive and subsequent floppies (known good ones) won't work afterwards.

This has happened to me so many times. Your bourns filter may be bad but what I'd do first before replacing it is this: give your floppy drive a good clean, again. Even if you had cleaned it seconds before you inserted that bad floppy, you would still need to clean it again afterwards.

Cleaning kits work well 80% of the time. If they don't, well, you need to take it apart and clean the FDD head manually.

If it still does not work after that, well it's time to swap the FDHD FDD with a known good one for a quick test. You should have a couple lying around the house by now  :p

There is another possibility: a head crack. But if your FDD was working WELL a few weeks ago I don't think the head's cracked. IMO It's just dirty.

 
I'll take er apart later again and see what I can do!

It's unlikely all 4 were bad, because at least two I tried have data on them or have been used recently...

 
No, still not working :(

I've tried all the disks i have. Known working ones that work in my plus just want to be initialized.

Wait wait wait, so far one disk is working!!!

Now even that working one doesn't work now :(

What's wrong?

 
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About 1/4 of the floppy drives in my collection do this and I've narrowed down to (almost certainly) alignment issues. If only that were easier to repair!

 
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What points to it being that? It managed to read one disk, but the rest sounds like the filter being bad...
Ohhhh, I dunno, I used to service floppy drives back when they were still used? 

Of course I cant guarantee anything without looking at it, but I am just going based on experience. 

It is rare, but the other thing could be the drive has so many hours on it, its heavily used to the point where the head-gap has opened up beyond a point where the data can be read properly. 

When the disk spins, just like a tape deck, the head slowly wears away ever so slowly opening the pole gap. When the gap gets beyond a certain point, the high frequencies begin to drop off. 

 
The computer doesnt look THAT used... But I guess that could be a possibility. Sounds like a rare occurrence though.

How would I see if its not aligned correctly?

 
To know for certain, you need a reference diskette and an oscilloscope attached to the head amplifier. 

You will see the peaks and valleys as it attempts to read track 0. I say reference, because you need to know what the waveform looks like on the oscilloscope with a known good disk, and known good drive. This is your "control". 

A mis-aligned drive will have low peaks or even none at all if its completely between tracks. 

I haven't done much with Mac drives on alignment issues, but I have done a shitload of laptop and especially PS/2 drives back in the day as a kid just starting out, and I used to have a jig to keep the drive running while I was probing. What I noticed with old PS/2 drives, is the stepper motor locking screw backs out and the motor moves ever so slightly, Thats just enough to knock it out. 

But even the initial seek is just enough. 

What you do is physically unlock and turn the stepper motor right or left until the peaks begin to top out. You will have high frequencies in the peak as well. If you cant pull in the high frequencies, the head is worn out. If you get nothing no matter how hard you try, well, you have a bad head amp IC. These days its all in 1 IC so I usually have to probe at the head and crank the scope all the way up. 

Alignment movement is VERY very touchy, If a stepper motor has a 3.6 degree step, you know your alignment will be within a magnitude of 3.6 degrees, or youll move the head into the next track! and it will be a full track off. 

Also I should point out, that rotational speed is another factor. Its much much much more rare, but it CAN happen. if the motor cant get up to speed, you will have what appears to be the exact same problem! and the scope again will figure that out because you will be peaked but the frequencies are stretched. 

I would also like to point out that all Mac floppy drives have micro radial electrolytic capacitors on the PCB, and if they are reaching the point of going bad and leaking, well.... 

 
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In my younger years, yes. Not anymore. I didnt realize vintage collecting would have gotten so big. 

Once the sony mavica floppy cameras were finally phased out, I got rid of all that crap. One drop and those things were out of alignment. Happened ALL the time. 

 
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Well I've got a classic II...

The floppy drives can be interchanged?

So if I switch and it suddenly works, the original drive is mis aligned. If not, and both drives don't work, then it's the filter.

 
Tech, you said this in another thread

"You have to verify that its misaligned by formatting a floppy in the misaligned drive. It should be able to format, write, and read its own disks. But another drive cannot. and vice versa.

If that happens, its mis-aligned. adjusting the stepper motor with a known good disk by rotating it will bring it back into alignment. "

Is this still true? Again, disks can't be initialized at all or it says they are damaged...

 
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