Little help? Got IIsi, Vidcard & TattleTech . . .

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

.  .  .  to run a little test for me? I still haven't ordered caps yet, so the IIsi fleet remains in mothballs.

I'm very curious about the Slot ID status of the vampire video subsystem when the IIsi is running off only a video expansion card. When there's no monitor or adapter connected to the DA-19 on the motherboard, the RAM normally sucked out of the system like blood from a vampire's victim is not buffered from the system for use only by the Video Subsystem. MoBo video is addressed as a PseudoSlot (a pretend expansion card if you will) in Slot Location ID $E. I'm wondering if the RAM's offline, the whole subsystem might be offline? Will it still be reported as occupying Slot $E?

If someone could please test a IIsi in this manner: a Video Card in its PDS or a NuBus card in its adapter and nothing hanging off the video port. If you don't have it already (you all need to get it for basic hardware testing) download and install TattleTech to run the NuBus/PDS report. Save the report results as a text file and post it here for me, please?***

My guess is that it will still show up as being in that location because it has the equivalent of a physical Video Card's Declaration ROM as part of its makeup, but you never know until you know. Even if it shows up it still may not matter anyway because it will be dormant, with no memory to address.

Since it won't be addressing any memory, there shouldn't be any possible memory conflict with a PowerCache Accelerator.

I'm thinking about hacking together a passive IIci Slot/PowerCache adapter for the IIsi as an experiment,. Seeing TattleTech reports before deciding to order the connectors would be a big help to me and some welcome relief to the toy budget.

TIA

jt

***At the same time TattleTech will tell you the particulars about your Video Card and at which of the three available slot IDs it is located. This is what I've long termed "DeclROM spelunking." It's the way to find out what a NuBus or PDS card is by reading the info off its ROM and without posting one of the many "can you identify this card" threads we've had over the years. If nobody knows offhand what your card might be, you'll be told to go through this to find out anyway!

TattleTech reports on all kinds of neat stuff  .  .  .  try it, you'll like it!

< /ancient commercial reference >

 

[joethezombie]

Sure thing trash, this is my IIsi with a dual PDS adapter, so it will show two PDS cards installed.

SlotReport.txt

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

TattleTech¨ REPORT

(Tattle Version: 2.17)
(Report Dated: 8/27/56, 12:41:17 PM)

>>>>>>>> Nubus/PDS Slots <<<<<<<<

¥ Total Physical PDS Slots Present = 1
¥ Total Physical Nubus Slots Present = 0
===========================
¥ Nubus/PDS Slot# = $09
× Board Name = Spectrum/8¥24 PDQ si v1.0
× Board ID = 1004
× Vendor ID = SuperMac Technology
× Serial# =
× Revision Level = 1.00
× Part# = 1003257-0001
× Functional Resources :
+ Device sResource Name = Display_Video_Apple_SpecRice
- Device Category = 3 (Display)
- Device Type = 1 (Video)
- Device Software Interface Type = 1
- Device Hardware ID = 707
- Device sResource ID = $81
- Driver Number = -49
----------------------------------
¥ Nubus/PDS Slot# = $0A
× Board Name = MacNIC II/E
× Board ID = 8
× Vendor ID = Asante Technologies, Inc.
× Revision Level = Alpha-1.0
× Part# = MacNIC II-0001
× Functional Resources :
+ Device sResource Name = Network Ethernet_Asante
- Device Category = 4 (Network)
- Device Type = 1 (EtherTalk)
- Device Software Interface Type = 260
- Device Hardware ID = 256
- Device sResource ID = $80
- Driver Number = NA
+ Device sResource Name = Test ASANTE ET.ROM
- Device Category = 2
- Device Type = 1
- Device Software Interface Type = 0
- Device Hardware ID = 0
- Device sResource ID = $81
- Driver Number = NA
 

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Well that's a pleasant surprise! Thanks!

Now hook the monitor up to the vampire video and let's see if it reports itself as a video card in a PseudoSlot at $0E.

Might want to check the other reports to see non-physical slots show up in a different report? Video maybe? Dunno, it's been a long time.

edit: NICE video card!

 

[joethezombie]

EDIT: And I just noticed I'm using an older version of TattleTech.  I'll run again with the latest, and verify the results.   I couldn't find anything, even in the full repot, about non-physical slots.

Here's the report with the monitor attached to the vampire video.  I added the general and monitors section to the report as well:

Spoiler

                                     TattleTech® REPORT
 
(Tattle Version: 2.17)
(Report Dated: 8/26/56, 4:08:50 PM)
 
>>>>>>>> General Hardware <<<<<<<<
 
• Machine = Mac IIsi  (ID=18g)
   ◊ Total Hours in Use = 0
   ◊ Date Manufactured = 1/2/89
                    • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
• Addressing Modes Status :
   ◊ Machine is 32 Bit capable = Yes
      + System Zone is 32 Bit compatible = No
      + Booted in 32-Bit mode = No
• CPU Attributes :
   ◊ CPU = MC68030
      + CPU Speed = 20 MHz
      + Instruction Cache is enabled = Yes
      + Data Cache is enabled = Yes
   ◊ FPU = MC68882
      + Hardware FPU = Yes
   ◊ MMU = 68030 MMU Built-In
• Keyboard (Active) = Extended ISO ADB
• Memory Related :
   ◊ RAM Size = 5,242,880 Bytes
   ◊ Virtual Memory is In Use = No
      + Logical Page Size = 32,768 Bytes
   ◊ Virtual + RAM Memory Size = 4,912,912 Bytes
   ◊ System :
      + Highest Useable RAM Address (BufPtr) = $48438A
      + High RAM Used by System = 177,030 Bytes
      + Low RAM Used by System = 8,192 Bytes
      + Memory Used by Finder = 318,464 Bytes
      + Memory Used by System Heap = 1,200,684 Bytes
         - Memory Used by Disk Cache = 0 Bytes
      + Total System Related Memory = 1,704,370 Bytes
      + System Heap Free Space = 28,124 Bytes
   ◊ CPU can check Parity = No
      + Parity checking is enabled = No
• Miscellaneous Hardware Attributes :
   ◊ Has VIA1 = Yes
   ◊ Has VIA2 = No
   ◊ Has RBV = Yes
   ◊ Has VISA RBV = No
   ◊ Has DAFB = No
   ◊ Has VDAC = Yes
   ◊ Has ASC = Yes
   ◊ Has RSB = No
   ◊ Has OSS = No
   ◊ Has SCC IOP = No
      + Has SCC Direct Access On = NA
   ◊ Has IWM/SWIM = Yes
   ◊ Has SWIM IOP = No
   ◊ Has PWM = No
   ◊ Has SCSI Orig = Yes
   ◊ Has SCSI DMA = No
   ◊ Has SCSI 961 = No
   ◊ Has SCSI 962 = No
   ◊ Has SONIC = No
   ◊ Has PGC = No
   ◊ Has RPU = No
   ◊ Has OMC = No
   ◊ Has FMC = No
   ◊ Has JMC = No
   ◊ Has Software Power-off = Yes
• Network :
   ◊ Chooser (User) Name = Mrk-TV Studio
   ◊ Machine Name = Mrk-TV Studio
   ◊ AppleTalk is Running = Yes
      + Appletalk Version = 58.1.5  (Phase 2)
      + Zone Name = * (Single Zone)
      + Network Number = 0 (Single Network)
      + Node = 1
      + File Sharing is On = Yes
      + Program Linking is On = No
      + Standard NBP is Present = Yes
   ◊ MacTCP is Running = Yes
      + MacTCP Version = 2.1
      + IP Address = 172.16.100.103
      + Gateway Address = 172.16.100.1
      + Default Domain Server Name = NA
      + Default Domain Server Address = NA
   ◊ Ethernet is Running = No
      + EtherNet Hardware Address = NA
   ◊ Current Connection Type = Unknown
      + Slot = Built-In
• Printer Info :
   ◊ Current Printer Driver = HP LaserJet
   ◊ Printer Driver Version = 8.1.1
   ◊ Associated System Version = 8.1.1
• ROM Attributes :
   ◊ ROM Size = 524,288 Bytes
   ◊ ROM Version = $67C  (124)
      + ROM is Universal = Yes
      + ROM is 32 Bit Clean = Yes
   ◊ ROM Sub-Version = $12F1
   ◊ ROM CheckSum = $36B7FB6C
   ◊ ROM Start = $40800000
• Sound Attributes :
   ◊ Has Stereo capability = Yes
   ◊ Stereo Sound is Combined for Internal Speaker = Yes
   ◊ Sound Input Mgr is Present = Yes
   ◊ Sound Input Device is Present = Yes
      + Built-In Sound Input Device is Present = Yes
   ◊ Can Play and Record Together = No
   ◊ Can Play and Record 16-bit Audio = No
   ◊ Can Record Stereo = No
   ◊ Sound Input Port can accept Line Level Mic = No
   ◊ Sound Mgr Supports Multiple Channels = NA
   ◊ SndPlayDoubleBuffer is Present = NA
   ◊ Sound Mgr Supports 16-bit Audio = NA
• Table Base Addresses :
   ◊ OS Trap Table = $00000400
   ◊ Tool Trap Table = $00000E00
   ◊ Extended Tool Trap Table = NA
 
>>>>>>>> Monitors <<<<<<<<
 
• Monitor# = 1
   ◊ Active = Yes
   ◊ Main Screen = Yes
   ◊ Color Device = No
   ◊ Type = CLUT Device
   ◊ Nubus/PDS Slot# = Built-In
   ◊ Driver# = -49
   ◊ Screen Size = 640 X 480 Pixels
   ◊ Resolution = 72.0 X 72.0 Pixels/Inch
   ◊ Pixel Depth = 1  (2 Colors)
   ◊ Max Pixel Depth = 8  (256 Colors)
       + Video Memory Needed = 307,200 Bytes
                    ---------------------------------- 
• Monitor# = 2
   ◊ Active = No
   ◊ Main Screen = No
   ◊ Color Device = No
   ◊ Type = CLUT Device
   ◊ Nubus/PDS Slot# = $09
   ◊ Driver# = -52
   ◊ Screen Size = 1152 X 882 Pixels
   ◊ Resolution = 72.0 X 72.0 Pixels/Inch
   ◊ Pixel Depth = 1  (2 Colors)
   ◊ Max Pixel Depth = 8  (256 Colors)
       + Video Memory Needed = 1,016,064 Bytes
 
>>>>>>>> Nubus/PDS Slots <<<<<<<<
 
• Total Physical PDS Slots Present = 1
• Total Physical Nubus Slots Present = 0
                    ===========================
• Nubus/PDS Slot# = $00
   ◊ Board Name = Macintosh A Built-In Video 
   ◊ Board ID = 40
   ◊ Vendor ID = Apple Computer, Inc 
   ◊ Revision Level = Macintosh Family 2.0 
   ◊ Part# = 341S0818/341S0819 
   ◊ Date = 19-Jun-90
   ◊ Functional Resources :
      + Device sResource Name = Display_Video_Apple_RBV1
         - Device Category = 3  (Display)
         - Device Type = 1  (Video)
         - Device Software Interface Type = 1
         - Device Hardware ID = 24
         - Device sResource ID = $86
         - Driver Number = -49
      + Device sResource Name = CPU_68030_\_MacIIFamily
         - Device Category = 10  (CPU)
         - Device Type = 4  (68030)
         - Device Software Interface Type = 0
         - Device Hardware ID = 24
         - Device sResource ID = $F0
         - Driver Number = NA
                    ---------------------------------- 
• Nubus/PDS Slot# = $09
   ◊ Board Name = Spectrum/8•24 PDQ si v1.0 
   ◊ Board ID = 1004
   ◊ Vendor ID = SuperMac Technology 
   ◊ Serial# =  
   ◊ Revision Level = 1.00 
   ◊ Part# = 1003257-0001 
   ◊ Functional Resources :
      + Device sResource Name = Display_Video_Apple_SpecRice
         - Device Category = 3  (Display)
         - Device Type = 1  (Video)
         - Device Software Interface Type = 1
         - Device Hardware ID = 707
         - Device sResource ID = $90
         - Driver Number = -52
                    ---------------------------------- 
• Nubus/PDS Slot# = $0A
   ◊ Board Name = MacNIC II/E 
   ◊ Board ID = 8
   ◊ Vendor ID = Asante Technologies, Inc. 
   ◊ Revision Level = Alpha-1.0 
   ◊ Part# = MacNIC II-0001 
   ◊ Functional Resources :
      + Device sResource Name = Network Ethernet_Asante
         - Device Category = 4  (Network)
         - Device Type = 1  (EtherTalk)
         - Device Software Interface Type = 260
         - Device Hardware ID = 256
         - Device sResource ID = $80
         - Driver Number = NA
      + Device sResource Name = Test ASANTE ET.ROM
         - Device Category = 2
         - Device Type = 1
         - Device Software Interface Type = 0
         - Device Hardware ID = 0
         - Device sResource ID = $81
         - Driver Number = NA

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

BINGO!!!!!

>>>>>>>> Nubus/PDS Slots <<<<<<<<
 
• Total Physical PDS Slots Present = 1
• Total Physical Nubus Slots Present = 0
                    ===========================
• Nubus/PDS Slot# = $00
   ◊ Board Name = Macintosh A Built-In Video 
   ◊ Board ID = 40
   ◊ Vendor ID = Apple Computer, Inc 
   ◊ Revision Level = Macintosh Family 2.0 
   ◊ Part# = 341S0818/341S0819 
   ◊ Date = 19-Jun-90
   ◊ Functional Resources :
      + Device sResource Name = Display_Video_Apple_RBV1
         - Device Category = 3  (Display)
         - Device Type = 1  (Video)
         - Device Software Interface Type = 1
         - Device Hardware ID = 24
         - Device sResource ID = $86
         - Driver Number = -49
      + Device sResource Name = CPU_68030_\_MacIIFamily
         - Device Category = 10  (CPU)
         - Device Type = 4  (68030)
         - Device Software Interface Type = 0
         - Device Hardware ID = 24
         - Device sResource ID = $F0
         - Driver Number = NA
 
When it's online Macintosh A Built-In Video is listed as part of the IIsi at ID $00. It sucks out memory located on the mobo, buffering it for exclusive use as a poor excuse for dedicated (proper, specialized I/O configuration) VRAM ICs. According to the DevNote, it (RVB1) addresses that buffered memory as being located within the space allocated to NuBus Slot ID $0E, which has no physical manifestation in the IIsi.
 
Because the IIsi lacks the dedicated VRAM of the SE/30's video setup which is also located at $0E, it can (very likely) use a Passive Adapter for the IIci Cache Slot/PowerCache so long as there's no monitor detected on the mobo's video connector at startup.
 
Daystar had no reason to quibble with such details, the vast majority of PowerCache customers in the IIsi market segment would be using built in video. Those with the need for better video output would have added memory to Bank B, offsetting the vampired (buffered from system memory) mobo RAM and would likely be using onboard video with a secondary display anyway.
 
Me likes quibbling, especially when it offers the opportunity for cheating, me likes that even more!
 
They call this kind of chink in a systems armor a "wedge," an opportunity for hacking something into a system the mfr. decided didn't belong in its feature set. The pins of the 68000 were a "wedge" negating the Steve's insistence on the Mac having no expansion slot, something which had made the Apple II the darling of the early adopters of micro-computing, but offended the design sensibilities of his "vision." HEH!
 
Be that as it may, back to the pickle plantation.