First boot of a new IIgs - help!

[bigmessowires]

So I got an Apple IIgs from Uniserver - thanks! This is my first ever Apple II system. Now I just need to figure out how the heck this thing works.

When I first power it on, there's a short, robotic-sounding beep. Is this normal? Initially I thought it was some kind of diagnostic error sound, but now I'm thinking maybe it's normal. But it certainly doesn't sound like a "happy" sound.

I'm unable to get any video out of this machine. I hooked the composite output to a Dell monitor that I've used for other composite video projects, but it just shows a black image. Then I used a Mac monitor to VGA adapter, but the Dell monitor always shows "video signal out of range". I tried three different VGA adapters with the same results. Is the IIgs monitor output different from a Mac II series monitor output?

If I daisy chain a couple of floppy drives, I can see the IIgs try to access one, then the other, then it plays the robot-beep sound again and stops. I don't have any IIgs disks I can test it with, unfortunately.

Is this weird down-chord beep normal, or an indicator of a problem? Any suggestions for getting video going?

 

[Bunsen]

Is the IIgs monitor output different from a Mac II series monitor output? / Any suggestions for getting video going?

Yes.  It's analog RGB, but at TV scan rates (15MHz?).  Your options are to use the composite out to a TV, or one of those arcade CGA/EGA converters to VGA.

I have a couple of LCD TVs here that have VGA inputs (as well as composite etc) and I'm hoping that one of them will sync to a IIGS via the VGA in, but I haven't tested this theory yet.

Some old NEC Multisync monitors can get down to 15MHz, but IIRC, mostly the CRT ones.

 

[bigmessowires]

After watching some YouTube video, it seems that weird sound is normal. So I guess I just need to figure out the video...

 

[TheWhiteFalcon]

I think the beep is the IIgs version of the startup chime.

 

[bigmessowires]

OK, it seems the composite video input on this Dell 2007WFP LCD is broken. Which is weird, because I've used it before with other composite video projects. In fact, it's the only reason I've kept this monitor around.

When I connect the IIgs to the composite video input on the large TV in the living room, I can see the image just fine (Apple IIgs ROM revision 01, check startup disk…) But on the Dell monitor there's nothing. So unless I'm missing something obvious, I need to hunt down another composite-capable LCD. I wonder what went wrong with this one?

 

[bigmessowires]

Yup, that "weird sound" is the startup chime. I am not too smart sometimes.

Hmm, this is getting weirder. I hooked up a Nintendo Wii to the Dell monitor's composite video input, and the image shows up fine. So maybe there's something specific to the video signal from the IIgs that the Dell monitor doesn't like. Maybe it's not quite within the NTSC spec?

 

[uniserver]

yup that boot tone is normal

sounds just like this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrAdW1jCH5s

once you get your hands deeper into it, you will realize its got a pretty nice sound system in it.

https://support.apple.com/kb/TA36236?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US

Ensoniq Digital Oscillator Chip



The Ensoniq chip contains 32 oscillators, two of which are reserved for use
by the Apple IIGS itself. The remaining 30 oscillators are used in pairs to
produce 15 sound voices. Each oscillator uses seven DOC registers which
contain such parameters as the frequency rate at which the oscillator steps
through its wavetable, the size and starting address of the wavetable, data
obtained from the wavetable, and the volume and mode of the oscillator.

Sound RAM

64K of RAM is provided for the exclusive use of the Ensoniq DOC. It contains
wavetables, which are digitized waveforms, for each of the oscillators.

 

[bigmessowires]

Dang Dell… after doing more reading, it seems that lots of people have problems using classic computers and video game systems with the Dell 2007WFP. It must not be tolerant of composite video signals that aren't 100% in spec. 

I really don't want to get a CRT, and I've heard scan converters have fairly poor quality with Apple II video. But the 4:3 Dell 2001FP is supposed to work nicely with the Apple II and IIgs. I think I'll probably go with that, but unfortunately that means a few more days before I can do much playing around with this new system.  

 

[NJRoadfan]

Do you have any other TVs or monitors with a composite input? The Dell probably expects a perfect RS-170a broadcast spec NTSC signal, meaning it likely screws up when connected to a VCR too. Old computers and game consoles output non-interlaced "240p" video which is certainly not broadcast spec, but CRTs didn't care and you got smooth flicker free 59.94fps video albeit with half the vertical resolution.

There are a handful of LCDs that can take 15khz RGB video via their VGA port too.

 

[bigmessowires]

It works on the composite video input of my living room TV, a large Samsung HDTV. But using the IIgs in the living room on a 50" screen wasn't what I had in mind.

As luck would have it, a local person just posted a Dell 2001FP for sale on Craigslist yesterday. According to reviews I read, that model is much more tolerant of out-of-spec composite video from classic computers and game systems. So I met up with the guy this morning and bought it. Works great!

Now to find/make some startup disks, so I can do something other than look at the "check startup disk" test. I have an Apple 3.5 drive, so I think I can make IIgs startup disks using Disk Copy 4.2 on the Mac. A couple people have also had success using the Floppy Emu with the Apple 3.5 drive's daisy chain board, connected to the IIgs, so I'll try that too.

 

[uniserver]

yup you are on the right track there.!

 

[NJRoadfan]

The 2001FP can likely work with the RGB output too going by the reports of Amiga users. Use a Mac to VGA adapter in "multisync mode" (the sense pins aren't used by the IIgs). Sometimes you have to fiddle with the composite,H+V,SoG switches on those adapters. The IIgs outputs composite sync.

For boot disks, check out ADTPro: http://adtpro.sourceforge.net/

It can zip over 800K 2IMG images of software to real disks in seconds. Heck, I find it easier then using Disk Copy in many cases.

 

[bigmessowires]

Can anyone with a IIgs describe what the self-test display is supposed to look like, in terms of color? When I hold open-apple + option at startup, it puts the IIgs into a self-test routine. At first it draws lots of different hi-res patterns, which appear on the LCD in color. Then after a while, it shows some numbers at the bottom of the screen, and a solid border around it. The solid border is always some shade of gray (it changes depending on the number displayed). I'm guessing that border is supposed to be colored, but that's not how it appears.

Also, when I go into the IIgs control panel, display settings, and change the background color and border color, it just changes them to different shades of gray. Same behavior on the Dell 2001FP as well as my Samsung HDTV. It seems like maybe the composite video circuitry in both displays can handle color info from some IIgs video modes, but others only appear as grayscale. Both LCDs show colors during the initial parts of the IIgs self-test routine, but not anywhere else that I've noticed.

Cool, I'll try the RGB output with an adapter on the 2001FP. That would be nice! And ADTPro too, as soon as I can build an appropriate serial cable.

 

[NJRoadfan]

What you are seeing is normal from the composite output. The VGC kills the color signal in text modes (only!) on the composite output in an attempt to make the text less blurry.

 

[bigmessowires]

Ah, so it *is* supposed to be color, but not seeing the color on a composite video output is normal? I guess I can live with that. I didn't have any success with the 2001FP's VGA input and adapter set to multisync mode, so I'll stick with the composite input for now.

Last night I stopped by Jameco just before they closed, to buy an Imagewriter II cable, with the intent of cutting it up and making a custom PC to IIgs serial cable. Well, I forgot about the other half of the cable. I have a USB-to-DB9 serial adapter that works on the PC, but I don't have any kind of DB9 cable that I can cut up and solder to the wires from the Imagewriter II cable. That means building a working cable for ADTPro will have to wait a while, until I have a chance to pick up a DB9 cable somewhere.

I got a copy of "The New Apple II User's Guide", and I plan to spend some time reading through it this afternoon, so I can post fewer dumb questions about robotic beep sounds and video modes.

 

[uniserver]

ask all the questions you want,  iT will just help the indexing of 68kmla in google searches

and might get you to a 68000 after not too long

 

[bigmessowires]

I discovered I can hit control+reset on the IIgs and get a BASIC prompt. Who needs startup disks?!

Wow, I wish the Mac had as much useful stuff built into ROM.

 

[TheWhiteFalcon]

The Classic does!

 

[bigmessowires]

OK, I'm a bit confused how to get GS/OS 6.0.1 onto this machine. Looking at the Apple mirror here: http://asa.max1zzz.co.uk/English-North_American/Apple_II/Apple_IIGS_System_6.0.1/

For a system with no hard drive, do I want Disk_2_of_7-System.Disk.sea.bin or Disk_3_of_7-SystemTools1.sea.bin? And these disks are MacBinary self-extracting archives -- not sure if they're IIgs self-extracting or Mac self-extracting. If IIgs, that creates a chicken-and-egg problem. Use a IIgs emulator to run the self-extractor?

Looking at this alternate download source: http://apple2.info/downloads

It has GS/OS 6.0.1 uncompressed, but the images are all 1.44MB disk images. I thought the IIgs only used 800K floppies? How do you mount a 1.44MB disk on the IIgs?