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SE/30: (Still) Simasimac after full recapping

Dear all,

it must have been around 2011 that I started recapping my SE/30. I don't know why I did that in the first place, whether because recapping is a good thing anyway, I discovered capacitor leakage or the Mac had already stopped working back then.

There is already an ancient thread regarding that matter (https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/se-30-solder-pad-problems-while-capacitor-exchange.23458/). There, I reported that after finishing recapping, I got the "bright vertical stripe" symptom. I understand that this is not a logic board issue. I will investigate that another time.

I own a second SE/30 in working condition which I took to test my recapped logic board. And indeed, it is "working" in a sense that it produces the "Horizontal stripes" symptom.

(Symptom names taken from the Japanese "Repair Macintosh SE/30" page https://web.archive.org/web/20120614023138/http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html)

I already installed the pull-up resistor for the sound chip as suggested by that website.

What to do next? I'm slightly clueless, I already picked a continuity checker and double-checked whether all caps have connection to the respective pinouts on the board.

Any suggestions are appreciated.
 
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joshc

Well-known member
Can you post some high res pics of your logicboard please?

A lot of other things can be affected by capacitor leakage and it can depend on how well the board was cleaned.
 
To be honest, I don't remember whether the board has been cleaned (well, obviously - not :(). Besides that "rotting" had already been made quite some progress when I started recapping back then, AFAIR.

Sadly, I did not go for ceramic capacitors back then :rolleyes:
There are a couple of ICs of which some legs are coated in green. When working today on the board, I tried to get this off using isopropanol alcohol but did not quite succeed.
In particular, UE10 and UE12 are heavily affected.
IMG_2220.jpegIMG_2221.jpegIMG_2222.jpeg
 

imactheknife

Well-known member
mine still has the zebra like pattern. After like 10-15 seconds it chimes and boot normal. Would like to solve it. It has been recapped and cleaned. those UE8, UD8 usually should come off and clean pads, check traces underneath. Both my boards had heavy corrosion under those. I removed and cleaned. One se/30 working fine, other one, still zebra vertical issue
 

joshc

Well-known member
Those solder joints look really messy, there's lots of gunk on the solder pads. It's hard to tell where your bodge wires are going, I assume you have continuity but were you following schematics?

If I was trying to get this board working, I would start from scratch. Remove all the capacitors and bodge wires and start afresh.

I don't mean to put you off or judge your work - I'm by no means an expert but it is important to have clean, good solder joints when you do a recap job.

What is the resistor for?
 
What is the resistor for?
It is as suggested by the mentioned Japanese SE/30 repair page:
"(5) If solution (4) doesn't work, pull up the sound IC chip (UB11). You can see letters "SONY 0F09G 3430045B APPLE85" or "SONY 9A04 3430045B APPLE85" printed on the chip. To pull up the IC chip, connect pin 7 to pin 15 of the chip with a 1 kilo ohm resistor."
 

joshc

Well-known member
Can you take a photo of the actual symptoms/simasimac pattern your SE/30 produces?

I'm not so sure about some of the suggestions in that guide. Using radial leaded caps is less than ideal.
 

joshc

Well-known member
What I'd do if this was my machine:

1. Make sure you have the right soldering equipment/tools, if you don't already. Flux is a must. A decent soldering iron (doesn't have to be expensive). I use an SMD rework station that includes a soldering iron and hot air gun and it cost me about £80 from Amazon a few years ago. The important bit is having an iron with enough power and the ability to maintain temperature.

2. Finnese your soldering technique. I learnt a lot of tips and good techniques from Branchus Creations, he has a video series on soldering here:

3. With your logicboard, starting fresh and getting it as clean as possible is really important if you want it to work properly. The caps you put on need to come off, and the solder pads need to be made absolutely clean. A clean solder pad will look silver and a bit shiny - it will not have any old solder or cap goo on it. Branchus Creations goes into this in his videos, but the method is essentially a case of using flux, solder wick and fresh solder, and redoing that process over and over to get those pads clean. Practice on a different board, something you don't care about. Junk boards can be found on eBay.

4. Removing those caps has to be done really carefully - it's easy to pull the pads with them when a large cap is sitting on these small pads. Hot air is good for this, but that takes practice and I'd strongly suggest praciting on something else first. Once you've got the caps off and the solder pads clean, I would also remove the pull-up resistor from the sound chip and double check the connections of your bodge wires. I would definitely re-verify that your bodge wires are going to the right places.

5. It's common to need to pull various ICs to clean underneath them, and sometimes they might need replacement. This requires a level of SMD rework skill that takes practice - so again I would recommend practicing on a board you don't care about.

6. When you come to putting new caps on, use SMD parts. Radial leaded caps are not good on these boards, for a few reasons. They are easy to knock off, and you are most likely to end up with damaged or missing pads.

7. Once the board has new caps, and is a lot cleaner, that's the point at which I'd start to do more diagnosis.

If you are not comfortable carrying out SMD board repair, there are a lot of people who offer services to repair your board for you, and some of them are on this forum. Sometimes that's easier than trying to fix it yourself.
 

imactheknife

Well-known member
Mine had the same screen before recap, and sometimes after recap. My classic did this too. I believe it is ram related as both times I cleaned memory area really well and now have zero issues. On the se/30 i checked for any corrosion or dullness on simm sockets fingers where it touches memory stick. I purchased my se/30 with that exact screen for parts/ repair.. works excellent today
 

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imactheknife

Well-known member
So like what joshc says above is great info and if your not comfortable doing it, get someone who can. I have another se/30 i am still trying to figure out.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
@joshc has incredibly good suggestions there. One other I’d venture: there’s a lot of back and forth regarding what method to use taking the old caps off. Many of the SMD caps on these boards have a dot of glue underneath them that will resist you removing them even if you heat the solder effectively. I believe in the twist off method: twisting the cap back and forth until the leads break internally. As joshc said, you can always ruin pads if they are damaged, but I’ve had far more pad damage from unrealized remaining solder under leads while pulling a cap up. I’ve never had pad damage if I twisted the cap back and forth completely 90 degrees perpendicular from the board. The trick is to not have any force up, and not turn the cap more than 90-180 degrees each time you wiggle it back and forth.

As was stated, practice this on spare boards. The benefit to me is also that once the cap is off, the leads are open and exposed, and easily taken off with some flux and heat.
 

joshc

Well-known member
The twist method is fine for the original SMD caps, but not for the radial leaded caps that have been used on this board.
 

imactheknife

Well-known member
@joshc has incredibly good suggestions there. One other I’d venture: there’s a lot of back and forth regarding what method to use taking the old caps off. Many of the SMD caps on these boards have a dot of glue underneath them that will resist you removing them even if you heat the solder effectively. I believe in the twist off method: twisting the cap back and forth until the leads break internally. As joshc said, you can always ruin pads if they are damaged, but I’ve had far more pad damage from unrealized remaining solder under leads while pulling a cap up. I’ve never had pad damage if I twisted the cap back and forth completely 90 degrees perpendicular from the board. The trick is to not have any force up, and not turn the cap more than 90-180 degrees each time you wiggle it back and forth.

As was stated, practice this on spare boards. The benefit to me is also that once the cap is off, the leads are open and exposed, and easily taken off with some flux and heat.
I use the twist method. I used to cut them off, which worked ok, but the twist with no upward pull works well. A lot old caps fall off as soon as you touch them. The issue is, after getting caps off, you still need the remaining legs off, and if there is a lot of crusty cap goo, those pads have to be cleaned. Watch branchus creations se/30 recap on youtube. I am sure he has done a few se/30 machines
 

joshc

Well-known member
True, cutting those leads would be an easy way of removing those caps, then it is just a case of removing the rest of the lead from the pads.
 
Dear all,
Thank you very much for your contributions. Since the board has already a substantial amount of damage and I already have lost a couple of solder pads while removing the factory caps back then, I would rather give it to someone who is experienced with that and already owns all the necessary tools. I will open a new thread for that.
 
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