Color Classic / Apple IIe Card - A Few Questions

[Scott Baret]

I have debated about using an Apple IIe card on my LC for some time but am thinking now that I may wish to use it on a Color Classic instead (in case I ever get another video card for the LC).

A few questions about this card:

1. What version of Apple IIe card software would I need to run this? I'm not sure off the top of my head what is on the disks I have but since the Color Classic needs 7.1 as a minimum would I be able to run it on there? (I for some reason remember 6.0.8 being on Apple II card disks of years past).

2. Can I use the internal 3.5" drive as "drive 1" for my virtual Apple II or do I need to plug the external drive into the "three-headed connector" that goes on the back of the card? (If yes, can it be chained with a 5.25" drive a la Apple IIGS?)

3. If I wanted to print, am I restricted to what type of printer I can use? (I have a Color StyleWriter 2400 that would fit nicely on the platform I'm thinking of using the Color Classic on).

4. Do you folks feel the Apple IIe card is a better option than an actual IIe? (I ask this because I need to use a 3.5" drive with some new Apple II software I just ordered and I'm not sure if I could plug the 3.5" drive into the actual IIe given the drive card I have on there--it's the one that was always used for 5.25" non-Disk II drives).

I have not seen a IIe card in action in nearly 16 years so my memory on how they function is a bit fuzzy...but with two exciting Apple II programs on their way (just ordered them today) I want to make sure I have the optimal system to run them on!

 

[Charlieman]

Most of your answers can be found in the FAQ:

http://www.vintagemacworld.com/lc_card_faq.html

Additions are welcome.

 

[gavo]

A few questions about this card:

Hi Scott,

Definitely check out the FAQ that Charlieman mentions - it will be invaluable - but I thought I'd just share my thoughts on one of your more subjective questions - is it better than a real IIe.

I used to own a real enhanced IIe many many years ago and it was relatively tricked out, but no longer have that machine. Recently I started getting back into the old gear and have managed to find an LC475 and a IIe card with 5.25 drive to go with it - no real IIe however.

Just recently I got my IIe card going and my initial thoughts were "AWESOME!!" and it is indeed awesome. The LC475 is a relatively (in the retro world) modern computer that gives you lots of options for connecting with the modern age - combine that with a IIe card that gives you the best of what you might have purchased for a real IIe (RAM card, accelerator, native access to the LC's hard drive and 3.5" drive as IIe drives, mouse card, super serial card, mouse card, physical interface to IIe joysticks and 5.25" drives, display on a modern CRT and access over display modes etc) and its a hard act to beat! Certainly I would guess it would cost a lot more (and be a lot more work) these days to spec up a similar IIe. The unit itself also seems to work very nicely - most of the software I've tried works flawlessly and I really enjoy using it.

On the other hand, you notice I say "most of the software". There is some IIe software that wont run on the IIe card - I ran across one such piece during my RetroChallenge (warp6 BBS). The software I wanted to run was looking for "vertical blanking" which is present in an enhanced IIe, but not present on the IIe (despite it pretty much being an enhanced IIe). From what I can tell, there were design compromises made (probably to do with cost) that mean that the IIe card doesnt work 100% like an enhanced IIe - but its pretty darn close. Also, the display is not completely accurate with what you might have been accustomed to with a real IIe - in part because its now being displayed on a modern(ish) VGA type display which the IIe and its display modes were never designed for - dont get me wrong tho, it still looks great to me.

So whats better? Well, if I could have a real IIe spec'd out with all the mod-cons that my IIe card gives me on my LC475, I'd prefer it - but the chances are I'll never be able to get a IIe like that. I definitely prefer the IIe card over any modern emulator (even tho most emulators provide better modern world connectivity via disk images and by running on modern machines and OS's), or a modestly spec'd IIe

So the real answer - its probably going to depend mostly on you

Cheers,

 

[Scott Baret]

I got my CC up and running with the IIe card. It booted fine from a 5.25" disk as well as a 3.5" in its internal slot. The computer works fairly well; I played a game of Oregon Trail on it to test its functionality.

My observations:

PROS

Much smaller than a regular IIe

Trinitron display

Built in support for 3.5" disks and a mouse

Easy enough to use (I put the IIe program in my Startup Items folder and made it into an "all-IIe-all-the-time" computer)

Easy connectivity to 5.25" drive (I finally found a use for that spare 5.25" drive my good friend gave me for my 16th birthday as a gag gift!*)

CONS

CC's screen has poor geometry (not really all that noticeable in Apple II mode unless a ton of text is on the screen, more of a problem when I use it as a Mac)

Dead PRAM battery (I do have a spare somewhere and just need to replace it; I wanted to get the card working first)

Keyboard is mushier than a regular Apple IIe's

*Funny story behind the floppy drive. My good friend went to a flea market and found an Apple II game that he wanted to run on his LCIII (which didn't have a IIe card). He bought an Apple 5.25" drive for a quarter and called me the next day to ask how one connects a 5.25" drive to an LCIII. When I explained to him that it wasn't possible without the IIe card (neither of us had one at the time, if I did I would have given it to him) he said that it was only 25 cents and wasn't a big deal. Two months later he gave me a very nicely-wrapped gift bag (complete with tissue paper). Inside is an Apple 5.25" drive. I laughed and he told me that it was the drive he had bought at the flea market for a quarter. The game, an election simulator called President Elect, was also included in the deal (complete with the original box).

 

[Mac128]

CONS

CC's screen has poor geometry (not really all that noticeable in Apple II mode unless a ton of text is on the screen, more of a problem when I use it as a Mac)

Dead PRAM battery (I do have a spare somewhere and just need to replace it; I wanted to get the card working first)

Keyboard is mushier than a regular Apple IIe's

These aren't really cons.

Since the IIe card will work on any LC, if the Mac screen geometry is an issue, move to a larger Mac, or better yet, add an external monitor to the CC (hacks & third party products will do this). I assume you are using it at the stock 512x384. This suggests your geometry problem is that it is not a standard 640x480 VGA resolution and like many of us, you have to scroll around documents and windows quite a bit. One solution to this is the VGA hack. However, I have no idea what that would do to the Apple II display. Presumably you would be forced to use the IIe Card 560x384 mode (twice that of the 280x192 high resolution Apple II graphics card) and it would still be available under the 640x480 hack.

The PRAM battery is easily replaced and necessary on most Macs of this vintage, so has little to do with the Mac-based use of a IIe Card.

Unlike the IIe, the ADB port means that the keyboard is easily replaced. There are numerous Apple and third party ADB keyboard options that approximate the sturdiness of the Apple IIe keyboard which was similar to the original 128K-Plus keyboards.

 

[Scott Baret]

My geometry problem actually seems to be the CRT itself--the lower-left hand corner is pushed in somewhat, making text appear slanted in that area. Resolution isn't an issue for me, it's the hardware itself.

As far as the keyboard--if I had an extra IIGS keyboard I'd probably use that instead (both for the "authentic Apple II" feel and the clickiness). I don't have the room for an Extended II (which I would have liked to have used) and don't have an extra standard ADB I keyboard. Does anyone know of any good space-savers with a clicky feel just in case I can't find another IIGS board?