"Catalyst" vs. "Tsunami" vis-a-vis CPU daughtercard compatibility.

[Nathan_A]

I have three different kinds of PowerComputing clones. Tsunami architecture PowerTower Pros and two Catalyst architecture derivatives: a PowerCenter (onboard Apple 7200 video) and PowerCenter Pro (PCI Riser integrated ATI Rage II video).

I also have a Dual 604e CPU card from Interware that seems to be a Daystar nPower clone or rebrand. This card works fine in the Tsunami architecture machines. This isn't all that surprising since the Daystar card was originally sold as an upgrade for 8500 and 9500 machines. The PowerTower Pro is derived from the 9500 board.

The problem I have is that I want to put the Dual CPU card in a desktop enclosure, not a tower. I've been looking for a PowerWave full-height desktop or a UMAX J700, but so far no luck. I've had an easier time locating full-height PowerCenter machines or vintage cases from other companies (like an IBM RS/6000 43p Model 140 or 150) cases that I could transplant the guts of a PowerCenter into until some magical future date that I actually find a PowerWave or J700. However, I'm not sure if the Platinum IC memory controller in a PowerCenter will work with the Dual CPU card since all the machines I know the card works with have Hammerhead IC memory controllers. I'm also afraid to just try sticking the Dual CPU card into one of my PowerCenter machines for fear that one could possibly damage the other.

Does anyone with any in-depth experience or knowledge of these two different Apple system architectures or their clone implementations have any guidance to offer on whether or not sticking a dual CPU card in a Catalyst-based board will work and/or if it could damage either the CPU card or the logic board?

 

[macuserman]

I'm kinda confused sorry if I'm a bit slow here, but at first I read you wanted a desktop shaped (horizontal case) instead of a tower(vertical case).

But then you said you were looking for a PowerWave(Vertical case) to put the powercenter(horizontal case) guts into? Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but I got really mixed up.

Sorry if I completely misunderstood your post.

 

[macuserman]

I think I figured it out, I didn't realize powerwave came in both desktop and tower form. Sorry for that confusion.

 

[Nathan_A]

I think I figured it out, I didn't realize powerwave came in both desktop and tower form. Sorry for that confusion.

Yep. This.

It came in both flavors. The full-height desktop (6" tall) form factor and the mini-tower form factor. The PowerCenter machines then came in the low-profile (4" tall) desktop form factor and the mini-tower form factor. The PowerTower Pro machines are in the full-size tower form factor (roughly the same size as the 9500 and the S900).

If the Dual CPU card works in a Catalyst-based machine, then there are a lot of "full-height" options available that the guts would fit into if I had to get the system together by way of transplant.

 

[macuserman]

I’ve never seen a desktop version of a powerwave, I had the minitower at one time so that’s why I was confused. I will say my powercenter is 6” tall so it seems that had several different cases among the same model lines.

 

[Nathan_A]

I’ve never seen a desktop version of a powerwave, I had the minitower at one time so that’s why I was confused. I will say my powercenter is 6” tall so it seems that had several different cases among the same model lines.

Ah, you've got the one with extra drive bays too. Yeah, there's one of those a PowerCenter 132 I found for sale that's full-height that I thought about grabbing, but without knowing if the CPU card I have will work in a Catalyst-based machine, it seemed risky and then I'd have four PowerCenter machines.

 

[macuserman]

Ah, you've got the one with extra drive bays too. Yeah, there's one of those a PowerCenter 132 I found for sale that's full-height that I thought about grabbing, but without knowing if the CPU card I have will work in a Catalyst-based machine, it seemed risky and then I'd have four PowerCenter machines.

That's what this one is a 132, I don't know if your dual card will work or not, but I feel like your risk of damaging either component is pretty slim vs it just not working. If i had one here I'd try it in my machine without hesitation just to see, because I don't think there is much risk. Could be wrong but that's just me. Also I've been meaning to post the 132 up on ebay at some point here as well so it doesn't hold much attachment for me either which may contribute to my willingness to experiment with it. Anyhow hope you get a better answer.

 

[powermax]

Does anyone with any in-depth experience or knowledge of these two different Apple system architectures or their clone implementations have any guidance to offer on whether or not sticking a dual CPU card in a Catalyst-based board will work and/or if it could damage either the CPU card or the logic board?

Which slot is your CPU card is meant to be put into? IIRC, a Catalyst logic board doesn't have any PDS or similar. It has a ROM SIMM slot instead,
see the annotated logic board photo here.
I can only speak for original Apple boards...

 

[Nathan_A]

The PowerComputing PowerCurve and PowerCurve Plus motherboards have a standard CPU daughtercard slot on them just like all the Apple and UMAX PCI Tsunami-based machines.

 

[powermax]

The PowerComputing PowerCurve and PowerCurve Plus motherboards have a standard CPU daughtercard slot on them just like all the Apple and UMAX PCI Tsunami-based machines.

CPU daugthercard slot sounds like a non-standard, machine-specific connector. AFAIK, Apple Catalyst boards don't offer something like that.
While the Hammerhead memory controller provides some multiprocessing support there is nothing comparable in Platinum.
Moreover, Catalyst-based boards come with a 601 CPU so I'm not sure if the SW on your card is prepared for a 601-style main CPU.
Like I said, I'm not familiar with Macintosh clones...

 

[trag]

Power Computing made its Catalyst clones* with a CPU slot which is identical to the Apple PowerSurge (X500/X600) CPU slot, except...

There's one signal missing on the cards. I can't remember which one. I'd have to dig through email from the early 2000s to find it.

Anyway, CPU cards from the Catalyst machines don't work in PowerSurge machines, but generally, the CPU cards from PowerSurge machines will work in a Catalyst machine.

However, and here my memory gets even vaguer, I think that missing signal in the Catalyst slot is used in mutli-processor systems....

CPU pinout for PowerSurge machines here: http://sphinxgroup.org/Apple_pinouts/CPU_Slot_Pinout

Pinout for the 8600 and 9600 Enhanced machines (Kansas/Mach V) are a little different. I think they convert some power pins to 3.3V, but I'm not certain.

None of which really answers your original question, but it's what I know. Maybe fill in a few puzzle pieces. Also, upgrade makers sold upgrades that would work in all the machine, eventually. Not sure about the early models.

PowerComputing Models:

PowerSurge (often called Tsunami, but technically, that's just 9500, Nitro is 8500, etc.): PowerTower Pro; PowerWave

Catalyst: PowerCurve, PowerCenter, PowerTower (no 'Pro'), PowerCenter Pro.

There were a lot of PowerCenter Pro models. After Power Computing figured out they could get the bus speed to run at 60 MHz, they sold pretty well.

 

[trag]

Forgot to mention, the S900 and J700 motherboards have identical form factors (they're the same board, but populated differently).

The desktop case of the J700 and the tower case of the S900 are actually the same model of case from Palo Alto Products, the ATCX Convertible. The drive cage is unbolted and turned sideways, and a different bezel and left case side is provided. Probably doesn't help you much now, them being long since discontinued. Some of the Dell machines used the same PAP model case in the tower configuration. Where you would get a desktop style bezel and side panel, I don't know.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/335