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IIfx Doesn't Recognize AVID 9GB External SCSI HD


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I've now begun to sort through my external SCSI HDs. My 20SC, which houses a Seagate ST-225N, still works perfectly after over a decade of ownership and communicates happily with my IIfx. However, my AVID 9GB drive, which I last used with my long-sold Performa 5215CD, isn't recognized at all by the IIfx. I can hear the HD spin up and both the power and busy indicator lights function as they should. There is no system folder on the AVID HD - just some documents and programs I transferred to when I still had my 5215CD. 

 

Thoughts? 

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How is that hard disk formatted?
 

Older Macs, -- machines prior to the '040 and IDE in particular -- can't use >4GB of a hard disk. If it was formatted on another system.

 

Also, have you looked at a tool like System Profiler, TechTool, or one of the SCSI investigation tools to see whether or not the system "recognizes" the disk itself and it's just a matter of reformatting it on the IIfx so it works on both.

 

More informationa bout volume limits is here 

 

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1 hour ago, Cory5412 said:

Older Macs, -- machines prior to the '040 and IDE in particular -- can't use >4GB of a hard disk. If it was formatted on another system.

That likely explains it. From what I recall, I don't have any partitions on the AVID drive and any formatting that was done would have been through my 5215CD. I'm currently running System 7.1 on the IIfx and I don't want to use the same drive to upgrade it to 8.1 

 

1 hour ago, Cory5412 said:

Also, have you looked at a tool like System Profiler, TechTool, or one of the SCSI investigation tools to see whether or not the system "recognizes" the disk itself and it's just a matter of reformatting it on the IIfx so it works on both.

The only program I've used thus far is the Apple HD SC setup and the only drive that appears is the one installed in my IIfx. 

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My method of using larger drives is:

 

FWB Hard Disk Toolkit, 2.0x (not personal edition)

 

First partition, 10MB, call it FWB Driver, make it not auto mount.  Second partition, 1.85GB, this will be your system software partition.  Third+ partitions, rest.  You might be able to make a single 7GB partition, depending on the system software you use.  Best to do multi partitions for the remainder.

 

The reason for the 10MB and 1.85GB partitions is the hard disk driver must be within the first 2GB of drive space, preferably less.  The OS on those needs to be on a partition under 2GB as well.  You cannot boot system software on a 68k Mac from a partition above the first 2GB.

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3 hours ago, Concorde1993 said:

Just out of curiosity, can the HD in the AVID enclosure be swapped with any other SCSI drive?  


That depends upon the internal cabling of the drive in the enclosure. I’ve not seen the inside of that particular enclosure but I have seen inside others that are similar and they have 68pin scsi inside. If you pop it open and upload a picture it would be easier to know for sure. 

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13 hours ago, MrFahrenheit said:

My method of using larger drives is:

 

What computers and OSes have you gotten this running with? the notes I linked above are based on Apple's KBs and TechInfoLibrary, it would be interesting if it turns out that there is other ways to get more data going on older systems, perhaps not because having a .4GB volume on an '030 is particularly practical but it would be nice regardless, especially given that 32 gig SD cards are so common and easy to find.

 

7 hours ago, Concorde1993 said:

Just out of curiosity, can the HD in the AVID enclosure be swapped with any other SCSI drive?

 

I would be ASTONISHED if it weren't a normal SCSI disk in there. Whether it's a 50-pin disk or a 68-pin disk or anything is basically up to when it was made and what market it was sold into but in general the "dedicated model for external use" thing that happens today in some external disks didn't exist at all until at least the late 2000s or so, maybe later.

 

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On the AVID HD controller board in picture #3, there's a port to plug in the SCSI ID switch in the back. My Quantum drive does not have that port. Is that going to pose a problem if there is no means to power the ID switch? 

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57 minutes ago, Concorde1993 said:

On the AVID HD controller board in picture #3, there's a port to plug in the SCSI ID switch in the back. My Quantum drive does not have that port. Is that going to pose a problem if there is no means to power the ID switch? 


You mean the push button scsi id switch in the back of the case?  Some drives might need the id set using jumpers but the theory is the same. 3 sets of 2 pins. 

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3 hours ago, Concorde1993 said:

On the AVID HD controller board in picture #3, there's a port to plug in the SCSI ID switch in the back. My Quantum drive does not have that port. Is that going to pose a problem if there is no means to power the ID switch? 

 

The 5215CD has an IDE disk, so an attached SCSI disk with no ID pins shorted would be at SCSI ID zero, which would work just fine.

 

The IIfx almost certainly has its internal SCSI disk at ID 0, so that would conflict with any drive without and ID pins shorted. Try finding a proper jumper and put in on any of the ID pin pair.

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I installed the full-size Quantum in the AVID enclosure and it appears to be a blank drive (IIfx shows blinking question mark on startup) and yes, it does conflict with the IIfx's internal drive as the Quantum takes priority. If there's a way to change the ID setting on the IIfx's internal drive, I'm all ears. Pic below:

1375822939_Screenshot2021-05-03233836.thumb.jpg.0979091df503297416fa09006178b46d.jpg

The drive installed in the 5215 is a 4GB Quantum Fireball, which still worked before going into slumber. Since the software on my A/UX HD doesn't work (moar infos here), I might go ahead and wipe that and put a clean install of 8.1 (it's a 750MB Quantum). As for shorting/jumping pins, I've never done that with an HD so some spoonfeeding is required. 

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On 5/3/2021 at 10:45 AM, Cory5412 said:

 

What computers and OSes have you gotten this running with? the notes I linked above are based on Apple's KBs and TechInfoLibrary, it would be interesting if it turns out that there is other ways to get more data going on older systems, perhaps not because having a .4GB volume on an '030 is particularly practical but it would be nice regardless, especially given that 32 gig SD cards are so common and easy to find.

 

 

I would be ASTONISHED if it weren't a normal SCSI disk in there. Whether it's a 50-pin disk or a 68-pin disk or anything is basically up to when it was made and what market it was sold into but in general the "dedicated model for external use" thing that happens today in some external disks didn't exist at all until at least the late 2000s or so, maybe later.

 


Cory,

 

I’d be happy to do some testing to officially document this. I’m in the middle of a pretty intense project of testing a batch of magneto optical drives I purchased. 
 

I do recall at least having a 36GB drive on an LC475 running System 7.6.1 with a 30+GB single partition as the secondary partition. I have enough variety of Macs I can easily test it out with a variety of OS versions, disk sizes etc and compile a reference list. 

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Whenever you have time, I'd be interested in seeing what you find out.

 

LC475, notably, does support >4GB drives in hardware because it is an '040 Mac with SCSI Manager 4.3. 7.6.1 supports up to 2TB partitions, and should boot fine on anything up to around 200 or so gigs. (At least 9 has this weirdness at around 200 gigs, I don't remember if it's also in 7 or 8.)

 

The interesting test would be on, say, an LC/II/LCIII, any Mac II, that can run 7.6.1

 

Even if you could get, say, 4+4+4+4 (etc) gig partitions on any 7.1-7.5 pre-040 system, that could/would be helpful.

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