Jump to content

Recommended Posts

had been mulling how to further reply to my pci video questions yesterday night but anyhow had a different yet related question to ask...

 

these pci risers (just the plain ones, not eg ones that had other features onboard such as the partial video for power computing etc), were they usually still specific to the system or one could had taken a 1-pci riser from the 6360 and leave it in the 4400 for a quick example?

 

I only asked this because I was hoping to look for a particular clearance height-wise as far as cases went and I had thought a bit about how if the risers could be switched around there was a bit more possible choices of boards themselves by then

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 68kMLA Supporter

There are at least five specific to Apple of which I'm aware:

 

- Single PCI riser found in the 54/5500 machines

- Single PCI riser found in the TAM (taller and offset as compared to the other single riser)

- Double PCI riser found in the 64/6500 machines

- Double PCI plus single CSII riser found in the later 4400s

- Triple PCI riser found in the earlier 4400s

 

I seem to remember that someone had tried a two slot riser in a TAM and everything worked, but it prevented the back cover from being in place.  That meant the cards were literally hanging there physically unsupported so there was a fair amount of stress placed on the PCI slot on the motherboard.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 68kMLA Supporter

Also, from what I've been told here, is that there was never a pan-global specification for the PCI riser, and not even within Apple's own PCI Macs.
The 6400 and 6500 riser connector appears to just be a 5V config PCI male connector, but I haven't bothered to count pins :p.

image.jpeg.0452b662304b40bdc1d363c60b6c41ae.jpeg image.jpeg.07583d70e8af3fe4223675db6d54dd87.jpeg

The "Spartacus" or TAM shares the same board as a 55/6500, so it's just the dimensions of the riser board are tweaked.

 

 

The 4400/Tanzania/LPX-40 design, on the other hand, is this:
image.png.a4b4217ad14a2d2610bae96f8ffca13d.png P1QMkEfm.jpg

And all riser boards made for the LPX-40 (4400, Motorola clones, and Motorola's sub-licensees) can be used interchangeably, AFACT, you just can't utilize the 5-PCI riser board meant for a StarMax minitower in a 4400 chassis ;) 

 

And to my point above, the clone makers didn't even share the same riser design:
Umax/Supermac:
image.jpeg.577586dad037ce8a292af20f3bf28400.jpeg 

 

Power Computing:
image.jpeg.5625d463ff1060189e7579c88b53eff1.jpegimage.png.57d5fd6133bc16e13bff1940a31eb4ce.png 

Link to post
Share on other sites

heh I had not quite realized that there was an odd pci+commslot variations too

 

anyhow thanks a lot still, looks like maybe only the 5400/6400/6360 alone have cross-compatibility (there was a website where someone had replaced a 1-pci riser with the 2-pci one but I'll have to see where it might be in the browser history list here if at all) as technically thats just more or less the same boards used by these trio

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 68kMLA Supporter
21 hours ago, chelseayr said:

I had not quite realized that there was an odd pci+commslot variations too

Yeah, only Apple's European market 4400/166 had a 3-PCI version. The North American market 4400/200 had the 2x PCI+CSII (not sure about the SEAP market 7220...), and the Motorola (and their sublicensees) had a 3x PCI with "TANZANIA" on most versions of it or the the big chonker bridged monster:
zDI8w7K.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting, I don't know much about of the 4400 itself other than that its apple's only one use of the tanzania series of boards, aside to the somewhat less-macintoshy case itself altogether

 

and btw I found where I had been sure I saw a mention of the 2-vs-1 pci risers...

http://www.jax184.com/projects/Performa/Performa.html

 

it seem to suggest that indeed the risers between 5500/6500 and 5400/6360/6400 can be interchanged 'downward', but of course hmmm I wonder if a 6360 wouldn't mind seeing two active pci cards on the other hand!

Link to post
Share on other sites

heh for a moment I wondered 'useless??' but you know what, given that OTA is pretty much digital everywhere afaik and very little else only had rf-out alone (even your NES had a composite cable option too etc etc) so yeah I do agree that the tv tuner card&bay could easily be done away with without missing out on much unless you wanted a "periodical correct museum-grade demonstration" setup

 

thanks for that 3 years old thread, really need to want to reread it more than once for some lighthearted inspirations ::)

Link to post
Share on other sites

jessenator and anyone else, I noticed another 4400 ebay auction (it fell under 'apple pci' keywords so mm) and after a cursory look at the photo I was just slowly starting to wonder if maybe just maybe its in fact a normal 2-pci riser with the additional slot length being used only for a few specific pins into the third pci card bus if at all or as I also suspect it may be more for likely for to feed the comm slot II itself instead and therefore went unused in the all-pci variation?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 68kMLA Supporter

@chelseayr I'm not quite sure what you're after there :) I'm not nearly as engineering-minded as I'd like to be, but I don't think I can give anymore illumination on that subject.

Here's the LPX-40 (Tanzania) developer note document from Apple: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kxx5lgjtkso0tas/LPX-40_Dev_Note.pdf?dl=0

And here's the Power Macintosh 4400-specific developer note: https://www.dropbox.com/s/itvnnh8xqkn5scf/PPC_4400.pdf?dl=0

 

(click for zoom)

RKkliKb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah when we look at the four photos jessenator recently shared it indeed looks like the non-pci extension of the finger connector is feeding the brown slot although I still do have to wonder about the non-commslot variation still having a few traces on the front side that are seemingly actually running to somewhere else (at least one or two traces to very near the top of the card itself)

 

I guess the only real answer is to manually trace the finger pins to the pci slots and logically match that to the pci pinout list but thats perhaps too much work for the time being tho :)

 

anyway I'm not going to theorize too much further on this, all I know is I'll hopefully soon have fun getting a 5500/6500 board with 2 pci cards into a performa desktop case and say goodbye to any tv tuner card in the meanwhile :-p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...