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Color Classic not booting


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I have this CC that came without keyboard/mouse: the logic board has clearly been recapped by a previous owner, but I don’t know if it works for sure.

If I remore the logic board I can hear the fan going and a clicking sound (failing HDD?), but if I try to jumpstart by inserting the logic board everything will shut off. Is there anything I can do while I wait for it to be shipped? (It will be in the same house with a SE/30 and peripherals so I can do more troubleshooting some weeks/months from now).

Edited by tommijazz91
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Buy a mouse and keyboard from ebay? 

 

The Color Classic has a on/off switch in the back which I am sure you have found.  After a mouse and keyboard are hooked up, and after making sure the on/off key is on, you press down on a key on the keyboard to boot the Color Classic.  It is the key at the very top of the keyboard, to the right of the apple logo.  I *think* I have the original keyboard for my CC, but perhaps other keyboards work, and the boot key on other keyboards may be located in different places.

 

Between now and the time your keyboard and mouse arrive, I suggest this:

 

Put the CC back together.  Plug it into the power.  Make sure the power switch is in the "ON" position in the rear of the computer, and then do not touch it until a keyboard and mouse arrive.  Leave it in this condition for a week or more if you have to.  Also, if you are powering it from a grounded electrical outlet, it is a good idea to plug in a surge protector between the electrical outlet and your CC. 

 

Surge protectors are rated in "joules". The higher the joules, the better the protection. This one on Amazon is rated for 4,156 joules:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HPX46U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

If you go to your local big box stores to buy a surge protector, you will find that they are rated for maybe 200 joules, or maybe you might find a high priced one ($79.95) rated at 900 joules.  Belkin is a name brand product.  The price is right.

 

Do you have a battery in your board?  It is not a old battery that is corroded, right?  If you can, take a volt/ohm meter and measure the battery. It it is not slightly over the voltage listed on the battery, go on line and buy a new one so it can arrive soon.

 

Keep us updated.

 

mraroid

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Thanks for the reply!

This is is the board btw:

 

8A4430D0-6D3F-46AE-88B9-D0DC765CFAA1.thumb.jpeg.622d2a8294460e18c5d53de3a0ee44d0.jpeg

 

The battery is missing so that makes things easier and I’ll buy another one right away (what are the specs btw?). The board seems pretty clean but that’s all I can say as I’m no expert. I don’t need the extra RAM and VRAM to boot the machine right?

 

I’m looking for a keyboard now on eBay, but they go for 40-50€ plus shipping and more depending on the country they are shipped from, and I’m not so sure about buying another one: I have three working ones where my other computers are (and where this CC will be, when I find the courage to ship it), so I’m still thinking about it.

 

As for the surge protector, now I’m thinking I should have bought one long ago as it seems fantastic!

 

I also bought a FPU for it, but this is obviously a secondary matter at this point. Besides, now that I read the other topic about fake FPUs I’m beginning to question the authenticity of the one I have...

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  • 3 months later...
On 9/6/2020 at 8:39 AM, mraroid said:

Put the CC back together.  Plug it into the power.  Make sure the power switch is in the "ON" position in the rear of the computer, and then do not touch it until a keyboard and mouse arrive.  Leave it in this condition for a week or more if you have to.  Also, if you are powering it from a grounded electrical outlet, it is a good idea to plug in a surge protector between the electrical outlet and your CC. 


I managed to find a keyboard (IIgs keyboard, works with my SE/30, even the boot key at the top, but just for turning it off).

I tried as you suggested, but it didn’t work.

Since the logic board has been previously recapped and (maybe) works, I made some pictures of the analog board, maybe you guys could tell me if it is in need of a recap?


20201101_170303.thumb.jpeg.6611b92d3dde85b3ea41122a8f71d8db.jpeg

 

 

20201101_170039.thumb.jpeg.6ed1a26daa93c1941c92592cfe25cd37.jpeg

 

20201101_170047.thumb.jpeg.1a0c6793b60813e4e3de1d1a57bde670.jpeg

 

20201101_170115.thumb.jpeg.eaecc22e951ed3bba534136191f6d7c5.jpeg

 

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Posted (edited)

Based on how jumbled those analog board capacitors are and the fact that they all appear to have a black marker dot on them I'd guess the analog board has already been recapped as well, but I usually mark them before removing them for recap so maybe someone was going to start the process and was interrupted. Are there any without the dot?

 

If you turn the computer on without the logic board in does the fan run and power light come on? If it does, you can then insert the logic board to "jump start" it by bypassing the EGRET chip that initiates the power on cycle. This isn't recommended and I'm sure someone will say it can cause damage, but if you don't have another board around it will help narrow down the problem. If the machine boots, then the problem is probably related to the EGRET chip and/or power on signal coming from that chip. Look at the chip to the left of the battery holder and see if there is any sign of corrosion on its legs.

Edited by ttb
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3 hours ago, ttb said:

Are there any without the dot?

I will check this more thoroughly the next few days so I can answer this precisely.

 

3 hours ago, ttb said:

If you turn the computer on without the logic board in does the fan run and power light come on? If it does, you can then insert the logic board to "jump start" it by bypassing the EGRET chip that initiates the power on cycle.

I tried that but it didn’t work: if I start the CC without the logic board, the fan starts (also a clicking sound, I thought it was the HDD not working properly), but no power light. As soon as I insert the logic board everything stops running.

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Can you boot to a OS floppy disk?

 

A battery will not cost you very much money.  You will need one at some point.  Here is one for $3.50, but not sure of the postage cost.

 

https://batteryguy.com/lithium-battery-3.6v-1200mah-ls14250-saft.html?msclkid=330cbffc927f11c49101e00f0314e812&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing%20Shopping%20Core%20Business%20Hours&utm_term=4584894771052069&utm_content=Core%20Products

 

You can google "Er-14250 3.6V Lithium PRAM Battery" and see what you come up with.  Not sure of your country.

 

Keep us updated.

 

mraroid

 

 

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2 hours ago, mraroid said:

Can you boot to a OS floppy disk?


The problem is I can't get to boot the machine, neither from the keyboard nor by jump-starting it :-/. Only the fan starts (without the logic board), but no chime and no power light. What’s strange is that the logic board is very clean and recapped, and probably also the analog board. But I’m no expert and have no way of testing it.

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  • 1 month later...

I recaped my Colour Classic analogboard and found the PL2 pot (VG2) had to be reduced to let the machine boot.
My guess was that the recap changed the voltage to healthy levels and my old previous setting was to high for the powersupply?

PL2 = G2 in the service manual. Somebody who`s into electronics and how the analogcircuit works might have an answer.

image.png.53d6ceb1f86fe18586130b1a6f5db6f6.png  

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23 hours ago, mraroid said:

Any luck so far tommijazz91?

 

mraroid

Unfortunately no...I am still searching for someone here in Denmark to help :(

 

19 hours ago, 8tto said:

I recaped my Colour Classic analogboard and found the PL2 pot (VG2) had to be reduced to let the machine boot.

Hmm interesting...problem is I don't have any sort of equipment and still need someone who understands these problems. The various lockdowns have not helped either...

To ship such a computer to be serviced would be far too risky in my opinion.

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You can try both motherboards to rule out faults on the original motherboard.
As fare as I know the 550 also should work without further modifications on hardware or in software.
Edit: The 575 would probably boot, but not give any video on the screen without hacking the system software?

Edited by 8tto
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20 hours ago, 8tto said:

You can try both motherboards to rule out faults on the original motherboard.
As fare as I know the 550 also should work without further modifications on hardware or in software.
 

I will try that, they are in good shape but I'll know more once I inspect them better.

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20 hours ago, tommijazz91 said:

I will try that, they are in good shape but I'll know more once I inspect them better.

Just curious, after you flick switch to 'on', and when you press power button on keyboard, what exactly happens?  Nothing at all?  Or a click? or?

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Posted (edited)

If I turn "on" the switch on the back and then I press the power button on the keyboard, nothing happens (no clicks, no light). However, if I remove the logic board with the switch on, I can hear what seems to be the fan and a probably "clicking" hard drive, maybe faulty. If I try to insert quickly the logic board as to jump-start it, everything stops.

Edited by tommijazz91
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Posted (edited)

Two thoughts:

 

Have you checked the underside spring ground tab/loops on the motherboard are all making good contact with the bottom ground shield? Grounding can apparently be trickier than normal with the CC. There are supposed to be four of these little metal grounding loops that snap in from the underside of the board. 

 

Also I had a CC motherboard that worked immediately after recapping only to stop working (same behavior as yours) when checked weeks later. I got it working again by cleaning under the u5 (sound?) and u7 (adb/power mgmt?) chips with flux cleaner and tiny dental brushes. Flushed out some residue. I think some old cap goo eventually re-solidified under there after I cleaned all around it with IPA and cotton swabs. This was before I got an ultrasonic cleaner, but honestly not sure how good those are at cleaning under chips.

Edited by Fizzbinn
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20 hours ago, Fizzbinn said:

Two thoughts:

 

Have you checked the underside spring ground tab/loops on the motherboard are all making good contact with the bottom ground shield? Grounding can apparently be trickier than normal with the CC. There are supposed to be four of these little metal grounding loops that snap in from the underside of the board. 

 

Also I had a CC motherboard that worked immediately after recapping only to stop working (same behavior as yours) when checked weeks later. I got it working again by cleaning under the u5 (sound?) and u7 (adb/power mgmt?) chips with flux cleaner and tiny dental brushes. Flushed out some residue. I think some old cap goo eventually re-solidified under there after I cleaned all around it with IPA and cotton swabs. This was before I got an ultrasonic cleaner, but honestly not sure how good those are at cleaning under chips.

Thanks, I'll check the spring tabs, I noticed them but didn't thing they were that important.
I'll also check U5 and U7 to the best of my abilities, but there's not much I can do in terms of cleaning for now. It's a bit frustrating not knowing a thing about electronics, guess I'll have to get myself some equipment sooner or later :undecided:.

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I think u7 is the Egret. Some pics for reference:

 

85BA171E-50BA-46D4-982F-06CB8841C645.jpeg.e18408999a4554e4d7e97c6efa22f50e.jpeg
26455D18-8985-4C13-BA02-551412F2339A.jpeg.50728586d93d39c9e3ecc7f8603186f8.jpeg5856A384-FF73-4851-85BA-EC0C11C8BD83.jpeg.2dbc6f3add8086b2ecf82248531d36ec.jpeg

 

My cleaning method was to tilt the board so the flux remover would drip off the closest board edge onto a pile of paper towels. Used the dental brush while still wet from all sides I could get it under, sweeping back and forth from the corners for u5. Repeated several times. Fun colors in the run off at first, clear when I stopped. 

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20 hours ago, Fizzbinn said:

I think u7 is the Egret. Some pics for reference:

Wow thanks, this will be a huge help. I will try this first, then if it doesn't work I'll keep searching for someone who can help me locally.

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Yes U7 is the Egret

 

also U8 next to it can be a problem. 

 

Never been able to revive a board only by cleaning it, usually removing, cleaning and soldering back works for me. 

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