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Macintosh SE/30 Restoration


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Okay, I think I need a bit more help. @techknight, I'm looking to you a little bit! Still waiting on RAM so I haven't actually booted up an OS on this thing, but as noted early, there is no chime or bong. It's the same thing from both the speaker and the 3.5mm headphone jack. There are a couple of very short pops or clicks from the speaker when I first turn on the power switch.

 

I went ahead and recapped my analog board (not the power supply, just the A/B) not expecting a fix, but worth nothing that there was no change in behavior.

 

My guesses:

  • Bad/eaten trace on the logic board
  • Corrosion on a critical sound IC somewhere
  • Missing -12v rail, I think I heard that can cause this

I know where the two Sony chips are, but isn't there one more IC that handles sound?

Edited by PotatoFi
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Okay, I have some good news, and some bad news.

 

The good news is that the sound does seem to work!

 

The bad news is that I installed my 4x16mb sticks of RAM in Bank A, and now when I power on the machine, it shows horizontal zebra stripes, and goes "CHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME" continuously, and very loudly.

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More news! I swapped my 4x16 mb sticks into Bank B, and I installed my 4x256 kb sticks into Bank A. Backwards, I know... but it boots again! I was able to boot into a System Tools disk, and it shows 2 mb of RAM. Is that an indicator that it's working, and I just need to install mode32?

 

Also, the sound is still not working. When I adjust the sound, the speaker pops, but there is no actual sound.

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I just installed 4x16mb + 2mb (66 total) today for the first time - for me it showed 66mb before installing mode32 - just the finder was "using" 60mb of it. After installing mode32 the finder (7.5.3) was using 4mb and the rest showed as free. If it's not showing I don't think it's working. If it's the "yellow" ones from amazon, I could not get them to work and had to RMA.

IMG_20200612_162100_893.jpg

Edited by erichelgeson
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Thanks @erichelgeson! I'm happy to report that I've found some success, but not how I expected. The machine came with 4x256kb sticks in Bank A. I was under the impression that you must use larger sticks of memory in Bank A, and smaller sticks in Bank B. This source in particular notes that you must also put something in Bank B if you plan to use 4x16mb.

 

As you'll see in a moment, it turns out that the RAM configurations for the SE/30 are all over the place, as you can see documented here and also here by @jessenator.

 

I tried 4x16mb in Bank A, and nothing in Bank B. Horizontal zebra stripes, and the never-ending "BOOOOOOOOOONG" sound.

 

I tried 4x16mb in Bank A, and 4x256kb in Bank B. Horizontal zebra stripes, and the never-ending "BOOOOOOOOOONG" sound.

 

I tried 4x256kb in Bank A, and 4x16mb in Bank B, and it worked, showing 2,048k!

 

IMG_0684.thumb.jpg.81ba84ce9e543cd50451b12511ea1322.jpg

 

Next, I installed MODE32 from the Macintosh Garden. After the installation, I went to the Memory app in the Control Panel and turned 32-bit Addressing on. I'd already done it here, but I figured it would be good to document this with a screenshot.

 

I was also impressed that MODE32 added a control to the Memory app. Very slick.

 

IMG_0686.thumb.jpg.bb687a70dd8536cbf53bf575847a4617.jpg

 

I rebooted (not power cycled), I get 66,560k!

 

IMG_0685.thumb.jpg.1b48dd28feee9ec689b440057d2f06a4.jpg

 

Also, I noticed that after a full power cycle, the machine seems to "POST" or whatever we call that here very, very fast. I'm used to a blank screen when the 4mb memory check slowly happens on my SE FDHD. On this machine, it's nearly instant. Then, it hangs on the Happy Mac for quite awhile (about as long as I'd expect) before booting.

 

Also also, I am shocked at how performant this machine is. I'm used to the Plus, SE, Classic II, and LCII. I know I haven't installed much, but with a SCSI2SD, this thing is blazing fast. I'm looking forward to do doing more on it!

 

Tomorrow is supposed to be rainy, which is great. That means I can work on my SE/30! Here are my plans for tomorrow and the days after that:

  • borrow the hard drive bracket, LED, and screws from my Trash SE FDHD that I just restored
  • 3D print a SCSI2SD bracket
  • Service the floppy drive
  • Install the floppy/SCSI2SD assembly
  • Tune the size, centering, and rotation of the CRT
  • Track down the "no sound" issue
  • Decide what version of System 7 to install, and install it
  • Install my Asante Ethernet card and see if it works (an awesome gift from my friend @sclements)
Edited by PotatoFi
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More progress today! I modeled up a SCSI2SD bracket for it. I designed it to fit in SE's, Classics, and LC-series machines.

 

444995328_ScreenShot2020-06-13at1_36_33PM.thumb.png.c9729344e912548e9e19ecb055a3b468.png

 

On LC-series machines, it will mount to the chassis with the board facing up. In a Classic II, SE, or SE/30, it will mount with the SCSI logo facing up.

 

1901022910_ScreenShot2020-06-13at1_36_49PM.thumb.png.03a327d2c887c71940c38deec45d1b0e.png

 

I started that on the printer in grey, which I think will look nice in the machine.

 

IMG_0694.thumb.jpg.24170bbfaed2649a495b304f9025c1a5.jpg

 

You also probably remember that one of my RAM slots is broken. I tweaked my "RAM Clip" design a bit and ran set of those off on my Prusa MINI.

 

IMG_0695.thumb.jpg.a99bd751c77ad2b4ced9fe85515086ae.jpg

 

It was a pretty fast print! Here are the results.

 

IMG_0698.thumb.jpg.7880590651c2898fc84b6b8565463a03.jpg

 

Extreme closeup! I printed these with PETG, which doesn't print quite as clean as PLA. But it's a bit "springier" which I like. The RAM stick doesn't move around at all! I used some clips on the adjacent slot as well just to show them off.

 

IMG_0699.thumb.jpg.b4de7118f31e4742dae1e7f29126b386.jpg

 

Next I tackled the floppy drive. I've documented this in several other threads (such as my Classic II Restoration), so I won't go over it again here. But for the sake of documentation, here it was before. It was one of the cleanest drives I've seen.

 

IMG_0696.thumb.jpg.38d43bccecdd1d33b72dc856acd11861.jpg

 

Here it is after a clean and lubrication. Disks fly out of it now!

 

IMG_0697.thumb.jpg.421b8ba5dab279b9e5f1ef9b4654607c.jpg

 

With the floppy drive done and the SCSI2SD mount finished, I assembled everything.

 

IMG_0702.thumb.jpg.c31edc170bfe219827132dd39aac3bc0.jpg

 

IMG_0704.thumb.jpg.84bb004ca2475e4fb814ff5c87fe901e.jpg

 

This afternoon, I also spent some time troubleshooting the sound issue on the logic board. I spent a lot of time looking at the SE/30 schematics, and looking for broken traces. I especially looked between UE10 (ASC), UB10, and UB11, since there are four caps between them. I also checked a few traces between UE10 (ASC) and the GLUE chip. Everything seems fine.'

 

I did check output voltages from the 14-pin logic board/analog board connector, and found -10v coming from that. Could that be the problem? I see the the schematic that -12v is used a in a few places.

 

Just to reiterate what the problem is: there's no sound, except for if the RAM is misconfigured or if there is a hardware fault that causes that horribly loud looping chime thing. When the machine is working, there are little pops and clicks whenever a sound is meant to be played. The problem exists at both the speaker and the the headphone jack.

 

By the way, one thing I could NOT figure out was how to count pins on those square packages. Everyone said to look for a dot. Couldn't find it. Finally, I realized that the dot was printed on the board itself. D'oh! Here's a quick reference guide for UE10 that I made.

 

IMG_0700.thumb.jpg.9321add9397a81ac4e654db62b3fb181.jpg

 

 

Edited by PotatoFi
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What configuration did you use for SCSI2SD?  I'm having no luck at all with mine.  This is the story.

 

With the old hard drive, my Mac was Sad Mac'ing on every boot.  I tried fitting my spare hard disk, loose in the case, and it booted fine (so I don't think that the problem is with my SE/30).  Feeling pleased with myself (and also very tired after a long day at work) I fitted it to my SE/30 - and put a mounting screw through the controller board on the hard drive.  Which shouldn't even be possible, don't ask, I totally doofus'd.

 

Without another hard drive available, I bought a SCSI2SD, imaged an SD card, fitted it - and nothing.  Turns out that if I boot from a floppy with Silverlining installed then the SD card mounts - so it's partially working, but it won't boot from it.  Furthermore, if I try writing to the card (whilst booted from the floppy, of course), the copy soon hangs.  If I try running something from the card then I quickly get a bus error.

 

What configuration is known 'good'?  What size SD card? How did you write the SD card?  What configuration should I use for the SCSI2SD adaptor? How can I make my Mac happy again!?

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12 hours ago, VMSZealot said:

What configuration did you use for SCSI2SD?  I'm having no luck at all with mine.  This is the story.

 

With the old hard drive, my Mac was Sad Mac'ing on every boot.  I tried fitting my spare hard disk, loose in the case, and it booted fine (so I don't think that the problem is with my SE/30).  Feeling pleased with myself (and also very tired after a long day at work) I fitted it to my SE/30 - and put a mounting screw through the controller board on the hard drive.  Which shouldn't even be possible, don't ask, I totally doofus'd.

 

Without another hard drive available, I bought a SCSI2SD, imaged an SD card, fitted it - and nothing.  Turns out that if I boot from a floppy with Silverlining installed then the SD card mounts - so it's partially working, but it won't boot from it.  Furthermore, if I try writing to the card (whilst booted from the floppy, of course), the copy soon hangs.  If I try running something from the card then I quickly get a bus error.

 

What configuration is known 'good'?  What size SD card? How did you write the SD card?  What configuration should I use for the SCSI2SD adaptor? How can I make my Mac happy again!?

I'd recommend following the guide on this website. It should have all of the information you'll need to get your SCSI2SD working.

 

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13 hours ago, VMSZealot said:

Yeah - I tried that (and it's an excellent resource).  Sadly, it still isn't working!

Why don't we continue this troubleshooting in another thread? I wouldn't want to hijack PotatoFi's restoration posts.

 

Did you power your computer on after putting a screw through the hard disk's controller board? This could have fried the SE/30's SCSI controller if it was powered up...

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On 6/13/2020 at 11:50 PM, ScutBoy said:

I like your SCSI2SD mount. Would you be willing to share the STL?

Yes! I am doing a bit of final tweaking to the design but plan to release it soon. The STL will of course be free for anyone who has a printer, and if someone wants to buy a printed part from me, I'd be happy to run one off for them. Please keep reminding me to get everything posted.

17 hours ago, davidg5678 said:

Why don't we continue this troubleshooting in another thread? I wouldn't want to hijack PotatoFi's restoration posts.

Thank you very much for this suggestion! But please loop me in on the new thread, I'd like to watch the discussion.

 

---

 

Back to the SE/30! Sadly, I'm in a bit of a holding pattern right now. If anyone has recommendations, please let me know.

  • There is no chime on startup, just a couple of subtle, sad "pops" from the speaker
  • The problem is the same on the speaker and the headphone jack
  • From the "Sound" Control Panel, some sounds work great, some sounds crackle, and some do not work at all
  • Usually, invoking a few different sounds eventually causes the machine to lock up solidly
  • "Quack" in particular sounds clear and doesn't ever seem to cause the machine to lock up
  • Sound in Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0 is erratic, with a clear engine sound for a few seconds and then no sound for the rest of the session

 

I've buzzed a few (but not all) of the traces between the the ASC and GLUE chip. All the ones I tested seemed okay. I also popped out the ROM, hit the contacts with an eraser, and reinstalled it. I even went out to the garage to see if my IIsi had a ROM I could steal; sadly there is a ROM slot but no ROM installed.

 

So... other than buzz every single address and data trace between the ASC and GLUE, I do not know what else to try. Hey @Bolle? @techknight? Any ideas on this one?

Edited by PotatoFi
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Unless the ASC chip itself is bad, you need to check every single pin on that ASC Chip back to its origin points and look for breaks. Thats ALL control lines, address lines, select lines, etc...

 

If it all checks out, its likely a bad IC. 

Edited by techknight
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On 6/16/2020 at 9:18 PM, techknight said:

Unless the ASC chip itself is bad, you need to check every single pin on that ASC Chip back to its origin points and look for breaks. Thats ALL control lines, address lines, select lines, etc...

 

If it all checks out, its likely a bad IC. 

I've checked all of the lines from the ASC chip back to various places like the GLUE, FPU, and PDS. No problems found. I guess I'd better start hunting for a donor board?

On 6/13/2020 at 11:50 PM, ScutBoy said:

I like your SCSI2SD mount. Would you be willing to share the STL?

Thanks! Yes, I plan to make the STL's available.

 

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On 6/24/2020 at 9:31 PM, techknight said:

if all the lines check out, then it is likely a bad IC. Youll probably need to locate a donor board that uses the same apple sound chip, its probably easier to get your hands on a board that has a blown up battery or something and use that for parts. 

The search is on.

 

---

 

A few more developments! My wife bought me a Mac ROM-inator II! I wasn't happy with the paperclip or rubber band solutions, so after a handful of little prototypes, I came up with this!

 

 

I also went ahead and boosted it to 128mb of RAM. Yes... it's silly. But it's done. Next, I'll be installing System 7.5.5 on it, and installing my Ethernet card. Until I can find a donor board to harvest an ASC from, that issue is going to have to go on the backburner.

 

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Great news! Despite his screen name, @EvilCapitalist has sent me a parts SE/30 board to scavenge an ASC from. Thank you very much, @EvilCapitalist!

 

Let's have a look at the damage.

 

IMG_0835.thumb.jpg.e10a8be77398fbb9847a10e0252e4421.jpg

 

Yep, Maxell bomb. How about the ASC? That's what we're after here. A bit of corrosion was present, but it looked salvageable to me.

 

IMG_0836.thumb.jpg.748c76e964143b2affa004f7870a02ba.jpg

 

I decided to scrub down the whole board with some vinegar to try to stabilize things a bit. I was a bit too vigorous with the toothbrush though, and knocked an IC right off the board. I think this is a RAM muxer?

 

IMG_0838.thumb.jpg.1869ba2b8bd482e47cb3da2c19906ece.jpg

 

IMG_0839.jpg.029348acc32f8962333cc0a7bc871ffa.jpg

 

After a rinse under tap water, and hitting it with the air compressor, it was time to desolder the ASC. I don't have a hot air station, so we'll have to use another method.

 

IMG_0845.jpg.eda79f46e79c21443187630c255c3829.jpg

 

First, a generous amount of paste flux. There's a lot of corrosion to burn through.

 

IMG_0846.thumb.jpg.6806f1979f7940bf5f2a8a155a33f26a.jpg

 

Next, I heated up the pins with the iron, and fed in a generous amount of desoldering alloy. A brand name of this stuff is Chip Quik. It's basically solder, except the melting point is super super low, so it stays molten for a very long time. Here, you  can see it in a molten state, even though I've put down the iron and grabbed my phone to take a photo!

 

IMG_0847.thumb.jpg.a7bbc3961f263f43819862ae44e8e01f.jpg

 

One lesson I did learn with this: you need to get the pins nice and warm before adding the desoldering alloy. If you don't, the alloy will just follow your iron around instead of sticking to the pins.

 

After coating each side in desoldering alloy, I began raking my iron back and forth across all sides. I kept the iron moving pretty quick, rake-rake switch. Rake-rake switch. Rake-rake switch. After a few passes... pop! Suddenly, the IC moved off of the pads and was free to pick up with some tweezers!

 

IMG_0848-1.jpg.da44cf7831ca955a036dd3c14037be57.jpg

 

I used the iron to reheat the pins on the chip (super fast and easy) and the solder sucker to remove the excess from the pins. A quick scrub down in some Isopropyl alcohol:

 

IMG_0850.thumb.jpg.291e2c50b8682b7ab67f8dc8875ab357.jpg

 

The board looks pretty good too! Here's what it looked like. After this is cleaned things up with some desoldering braid. Not that this board will ever work again... but it's great for practice. You may have noticed that I removed the caps earlier - I will certainly keep it around for parts, or for a reference board, so I wanted it to be stable for storage.

 

IMG_0849.thumb.jpg.601ea86396ec5077420e0f2be081c05b.jpg

 

Hopefully tomorrow, I will desolder the ASC from the good board, and solder down this new ASC. I sure hope it works!

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On 7/6/2020 at 3:45 PM, Jinnai said:

Pretty remarkable that you did that without a hot air gun. I sure wouldn't have wanted to do that.

Me either, ha!

16 hours ago, techknight said:

Yea, that takes some dedication. I would have hot-air gunned it. 

Yeah, I would have too if I had a hot air station!

16 hours ago, LaPorta said:

Impressive. The one thing I was amazed at was after taking the plunge, just how easy it is to work with hot air. I won’t fear it again. That being said, your effort was tremendous!

 

Thanks! This project almost convinced me to look into a hot air station... but I decided that I could get it done with just an iron. Or could I? Read on...

 

First, I decided to clean up the "junk" board for some practice. It will be great to keep around both for parts, and for reference.

 

IMG_0860.thumb.jpg.55d75ab99b0ef10052ef6833e89f8c1b.jpg

 

Next, on the good board, I went crazy with the flux paste.

 

IMG_0863.thumb.jpg.bea8379c9c2927b8626f02a3cda4c985.jpg

 

I gotta admit that this part took awhile, and was a bit scary. I had a hard time getting the desoldering alloy to evenly coat each side of the chip. At this point, I was pretty convinced that I had permanently destroyed my SE/30. Why did I mess with it? Would not having sound been that bad?! What was I thinking?!

 

Eventually I removed it all and started from a clean slate, and the IC popped off a lot faster.

 

IMG_0864.thumb.jpg.659380043cdd4ca1143f3f6db6819618.jpg

 

Here's the supposedly bad ASC, removed.

 

IMG_0865.thumb.jpg.b75e79f9671f5d68648dd22467aba22e.jpg

 

Next, I cleaned up the pads. I thought a couple of them were gone, but I scraped away at them for awhile and sure enough, there were pads! That could explain why the first ASC failed. I am pretty sure that there was continuity... pretty sure. I'll keep the old ASC around. Maybe it's still okay.

 

Next, I tinned a couple of pads. In this photo I have only tinned one; I ended up removing that and tinning a couple of pads on another side that was easier to get to.

 

IMG_0868.thumb.jpg.e5f477ad6f1d944698432f60bbdf0f0e.jpg

 

I ran the iron over each of the pins to make sure it was clean.

 

IMG_0869.thumb.jpg.6ecdf73b34cf1531e5cb5807b3760c69.jpg

 

Next I set the IC in place, and flowed the two tinned pads. The IC settled down on the pads. Next I soldered a pin on the opposite corner, and double-checked that everything was straight. Then, I hit all of the pins with liquid flux, and started soldering the rest of the pins. I thought I could drag-solder everything, but I really struggled with bridges so eventually I just soldered every pin, one at a time. At this point, I was REALLY convinced that my SE/30 was dead for good. Totally hosed.

 

After cleaning it with alcohol and hitting it with the air compressor, here's what it looked like:

 

IMG_0871.thumb.jpg.e94a4012608ab5251368d28769790a6c.jpg

 

I reassembled it, flipped the power switch, and...

 

:) There was a nice, clear chime! Woohoo!

 

I am doubting the fix a bit - I booted from the ROM and fired up Sim City from a floppy disk. The sounds all work just fine but are pretty bad quality. I think that's just because they're just low-quality samples. Curiously my Bolo or Microsoft Flight Simulator sounds didn't work. I'll get System 7.5.5 booting next, and play some more sounds to confirm, but I am 90 percent sure that the sound issue is fixed.

 

Thanks for identifying the problem, @techknight!

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