Jump to content

SSD for Powermac G3 beige minitower


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

On 2/2/2019 at 12:54 PM, Cory5412 said:

To supplement the SATA cards I plan on putting in vtools, I've picked up a "starter" SATA to IDE converter. For convenience' sake, I'll probably get one of these for my Beige eventually as well.

Anecdotally, this adapter worked out horrifyingly badly, for me. It appears to be utterly incompatible with LBA48 and also completely incompatible with working in primary/secondary configuration with another disk. I tried for a good solid two or three nights to get a 2TB disk running in my QS'02 and just couldn't.

 

I ended up leaving the adapter connected to one of the power points (because it's stuck now, love those molex connectors) and putting the original disk back, and then moving to a firewire disk for my first supplementary storage location.

 

For now, I'm going back to my original plan of using SATA cards for the storage disks.

 

I'm sure there's a specific one out there that does work, I don't happen to see a proven one in this thread, but a couple threads mentioned them over the past few months.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
On 11/21/2018 at 8:46 AM, LazarusNine said:

I had gone the IDE-CF route for a lot of my IDE-based machines. Any opinions on why this might ultimately have been a mistake? I’m contemplating moving the IDE-mSATA route at some stage...

Price! CF is essentially ATA anyway..  There’s not any conversion going on to get from CF to ATA.   ... And CF is Ssssooooo damn expensive!!!

Write cycles?  Ugh.. I’d go mSATA.They can come in cheap TLC or QLC types, but you can get them in eSLC or SLC Types that have a 100k write cycle life...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2018 at 11:42 AM, Dimitris1980 said:

would like to ask if an sdd can be installed in a powermac g3 beige minitower, what card is needed for the connection and if is it possible to install and run classic mac os. 

 

If you’re looking for speed, why not use a SCSI 320 card? The ATA on that PC is only ATA 33!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jimjimx said:

If you’re looking for speed, why not use a SCSI 320 card? The ATA on that PC is only ATA 33!!!

If I remember correctly, U320 cards don't work on Mac OS 9.2.2 or lower (although I'll be very happy to be corrected). They require Mac OS X. I don't think Adaptec made an APD-29320 card and ATTOs UL4x cards have no Mac OS 9 driver or firmware.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ArmorAlley said:

If I remember correctly, U320 cards don't work on Mac OS 9.2.2 or lower (although I'll be very happy to be corrected). They require Mac OS X. I don't think Adaptec made an APD-29320 card and ATTOs UL4x cards have no Mac OS 9 driver or firmware.

I have to think back to the years I had a 7600, but I know Adaptec did make a OS 9 320, although I can’t remember the model.  I was going to save up for one that worked with OS 9. I ended up getting a blue & white, and a sonnet tempo 133, and bigger, cheaper HDs.........

 

Edit..

upon looking, my old memories might be wrong, and I was thinking 160....  still better than the 33 or 66 that is built in..

Edited by jimjimx
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

I'd love to know some confirmed working combinations.. I've tried a SATA to IDE bridge in my new PowerMac G3 Beige with three different SSDs (intel, ocz and kingston) and although all of them showed up and would let me partition, format and install an OS on them the machine would either instantly freeze or crash with bus errors and illegal instructions when I tried to boot from them.

 

I made sure the partitions I installed to was on the first 8gb of the drives, too... I've ordered a CF slot adapter to boot from, hopefully that will work better.

 

The IDE to mSATA adapters look nice, but I have a feeling I will have the same boot issues there. It's a shame SCSI SSDs are so insanely expensive :(

 

I did manage to transplant a new ATX power supply and a new fan at least, so the machine will be whisper quiet eventually :) 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks! It didn't solve the problem but at least it clued me in on what the problem might be. Silverlining includes a TimeDrive benchmarking tool that reported tons of read errors during testing.

 

It seems like writing to the drive works fine but reading the data back causes a lot of garbage. That explains why I can install the OS but not boot from it.

I'll try to find a different SATA/IDE bridge, I think it's probably the bridge chipset that doesn't like the ATA controller in the G3.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wohoo I got it to work! The solution was to replace the standard 40 wire IDE cable with a modern 80 wire IDE cable, I think that improved the signal integrity enough that the SATA bridge works reliably :D 

 

The only tricky bit is that the IDE connector on the motherboard has all 40 pins while the new cable had a key and wouldn't fit. I decided to drill a hole through the key position, i think you could just cut off pin 20 on the board but I didn't want to mess up and cut the wrong pin, hacking the cable seemed less scary...

 

If anyone else is struggling with unreliable SATA SSDs on old macs try using an 80-wire cable, it might fix it!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 10 months later...
On 8/28/2019 at 9:03 AM, error1 said:

If anyone else is struggling with unreliable SATA SSDs on old macs try using an 80-wire cable, it might fix it!

I change the old IDE cable to a 80-wire cable but system still not booting up. I have a G3 beige mini tower. System runs well on 8.6 but the old 20 gb Maxtor HDD is on its last legs so I'm trying to install an OWC 120 GB SSD with the Addonics SATA/IDE adapter.

 

I partitioned the 120 gb into three partitions, 7, 50, 60. I copied a working OS 8.6 to the first partition but the system won't boot. So I put back the old Maxtor and it boots ok with the new 80 wire cable. Deleted the 8.6 and installed a 9.2.2 on the first partition. Still no luck.

 

Would sure appreciate your insights. What I'm hoping to do is replicate the steps you took to install your SSD if you could share them. Thanks!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

How did you do the copy of 8.6?

 

If you have a working CD-ROM drive, I recommend booting from a Mac OS 8 or 9 CD and using Drive Setup to do the partitioning of your SSD to do a partition. (You could also put a minimal install of 8.6 on, say, a Zip100 disk to do this.)

 

120GB is small enough that you don't have to partition it if you don't want to. Though, just to be on the safe side, you can (and I would, personally) make your single partition a couple (up to maybe ten) gigs.

 

If you formatted/partitioned it with Mac OS X, a thing to be aware of is that in Disk Utility (OSX's disk partitioning app) you have to select to include Mac OS 9 drivers for booting to work. I find it easier to just do the partitioning in Drive Setup (the Classic Mac OS application)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for responding.

 

I have a Quicksilver and formatted and partitioned the drive in OS X with the OS 9 drivers and copied the system folder into the first partition. Then I installed the drive in the G3. Could hear the chime but the video never started. Never saw the blinking floppy icon. When I put back the old HD, it worked perfectly.

 

I then formatted an old 60 gig seagate HDD and copied over an OS 9.2.2 system folder and installed it in the G3. This time I got the blinking icon with the ?. The system folder showed the active system glyph when I copied it over so it should've been recognized.

 

The CD-ROM drive seems to be broken. Every time I put in a CD, the system would freeze and I had to restart.

 

I'm thinking it may have to do with the formatting. There's no reason why it wouldn't work with the seagate. Is there a special way to format the boot drive in G3s? Never had this problem before. Not sure what you meant by the single partitioning a couple gigs. Did you mean to partition them in 2 partitions or in 2 gig partitions?

 

I didn't know you can have a minimal 8.6 install with less than 100 megs. I'll try that. Hopefully the zip drive still works.

 

Thanks again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A thing I've seen a few times is SSDs misbehaving when you let OS 9 format them to what it sees as capacity, so, format the SSD to like 110gb and leave the last ~8-10gb free (it can be a bit less than this, IDK what the threshhold is or what SSDs do it) just in case.

 

So basically the disk would ahve a single big boot partition and then a couple empty gigs at the end.

 

That was a different set of circumstances, but.

 

On your QuickSilver and OS X, what version of SO X are you running? Is it 10.3 or newer? I wonder if Journaled HFS is causing problems.

 

I would, if you can, use Classic's disk partitioner, Drive Setup.

 

Another thing to think about is that the onboard IDE controller can be weird, so maybe consider doing like a 7.0-7.5 gigabyte partition at the front of the disk to boot from and then provisioning the next ~100gb as a data partition. (This is known to be an error for OS X but IDK about OS9, I haven't tried it.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Success!

 

The key was the zip drive. I put together a minimal 8.6 and copied it to a zip disk. I included the Drive Setup utility in the zip. There were a few hiccups along the way. At first the SSD prevented the zip from booting up. So I went and changed the jumper setting to slave and it worked! Very strange. The jumper setting on the old HDD was master. Once I was able to boot up from the zip drive, I was able to reformat the SSD with the Drive Setup and copied the minimal OS 8.6 onto the SSD. Then I selected the SSD as startup disk and restarted and it worked!

 

The only thing is it's taking a long time for the computer to find the OS and start booting up. I don't recall it taking this long. Maybe I'm used to the Quicksilver booting up quickly. Been a while since I last used the G3.

 

The OS X on my Quicksilver is 10.2, Jaguar I think. I don't use it much. I prefer 9.2.2. When I partitioned it in OS X, I did HFS extended. I didn't see any option to partition it in Drive Setup so I just left it at 120 gigs. What's so weird is that the SSD worked only when I changed the Addonics adapter to slave. When I had it on master, there was no video, no boot up screen at all.

 

Thanks so much for all your help!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 5 months later...

My computer is a Power Macintosh G3 Minitower (300 mhz, 768mb ram, 120gb hd, Mac OS 8.1 and 9.2.2 installed, Ati Radeon 7000 32mb Mac edition). I use it for retro gaming.

- This card is for sata I speed only?

- What is the maximum speed that I can have with an ssd for this computer?
- Does it have big difference on speed comparatively to ide hd?
- In numbers, what (indicatively) speed may i have?
- Can i boot from the ssd?

- Generally is it worth having an ssd on this computer?

 

thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 68kMLA Supporter
10 hours ago, Dimitris1980 said:


that’s just a PC SIL3112 card that has been flashed with Mac firmware... the same card can be had for $10.50 on AliExpress, but you’d need to solder on a different memory chip then flash the Mac firmware.

 

I think the IDE speeds on this Mac have a theoretical max of 16MB/s. Not sure what you’d be able to get on the PCI bus.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

I bought the SATA card for Beige G3 on eBay.

However, it could not be used as a boot disk and was returned.

The trouble I encountered was not only the installation failure of OS 8.x and OS 9.x, but also the kernel panic in the installation of OS X 10.2 and 10.4.

 

Edited by taddy
attach picture
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, taddy said:

I bought the SATA card for Beige G3 on eBay.

However, it could not be used as a boot disk and was returned.

The trouble I encountered was not only the installation failure of OS 8.x and OS 9.x, but also the kernel panic in the installation of OS X 10.2 and 10.4.

 

You mean that you bought the Sata card from the ebay linked above?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh, SIL3112s should be bootable, as far back as system 7.6 (possibly 7.5) on PCI PowerMacs, even pre-G3, so something may have been wrong with that card or the firmware was really a version that's more optimized for OS X.

 

There are a few 4-port SATA cards for PCI PowerMacs floating around that don't work with OS 9 and/or are only for storage disks, but the 3112 should work for classic/9 and for storage.

 

In terms of speed: One of these SATA cards should be Good Enough. Even adapting a newer SATA HDD or an SSD to the onboard IDE should be a meaningful improvement, but it'll mostly be in terms of launch times, seeking, and that kind of stuff. It probably won't make anything in-game faster. (like, it won't boost framerates, but it may reduce waits.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 68kMLA Supporter
16 hours ago, Cory5412 said:

Huh, SIL3112s should be bootable, as far back as system 7.6 (possibly 7.5) on PCI PowerMacs, even pre-G3, so something may have been wrong with that card or the firmware was really a version that's more optimized for OS X.

 

There are a few 4-port SATA cards for PCI PowerMacs floating around that don't work with OS 9 and/or are only for storage disks, but the 3112 should work for classic/9 and for storage.

 

Only with the full SeriTek firmware. The "Wiebetech" firmware was a size reduced version of it that fits on the cheapo PC SIL3112 cards' EEPROM, but it only works under OS X.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ROM on the card that's causing KPs is corrupted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That'd probably be it! Thank you!

 

Do you know off hand if the Wiebetech version will fit on the version of this card with the smaller ROM? If so, that might be what happened here, or, it's got the right ROM but it is corrupted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...