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TarableCode

Quicksilver shuts itself off only under OSX

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Hi!

I just got this Quicksilver G4 with 1GB ram and 1.4GHz CPU upgrade and it seems to work in OS9 but under OSX it will just power off after a few minutes.

 

First time it happened when it restarted one of the 3 hard drives died.

I removed it and installed a clean OS9 and it seems to boot up fine and not power itself off, Tiger will cause a power off within a few minutes of starting the installer.

 

The CPU fans are running so it shouldn't be thermal protection kicking in.

I haven't touched PPC hardware in a while and this is my first "real" G4 so I'm not quite sure where to start.

 

Power could be an issue, I do have 2 hdds installed along with the dvd drive and the only keyboard I have is this OMGRGBLED keyboard so maybe it's just too much power used...

On the other hand it did it when booted by usb instead of cd as well.

 

Memory I have no idea how to test since the tools seem to require osx to be installed in the first place.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated :) for $40CAD I have no regrets :P

 

e:

12v and 5v rails seem to be fine.

 

Edited by TarableCode

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Visually check the capacitors on the 1.4 GHz G4 CPU. If the top of the caps are bulging or have brown/black residue, you'll need to replace the caps.

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Didn't see anything too bad aside from mountains of dust.

 

https://i.imgur.com/jmwvNPz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KkZLIos.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/FRL2vMP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eXytVsc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kcb5bW9.jpg

 

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I would pull all but one stick of RAM and see if the problem persists.  If it does, pull that stick and try the other one/one of the others.  I've encountered many instances where bad RAM isn't immediately obvious in Mac OS 9, but OS X fails dramatically pretty much right off the bat on the same Mac.

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I've tried it with one of each 512MB module with the same result.

I'll try it with some rando sdram I have kicking around but this is unlikely the cause :/

 

e:

No luck, found a 256MB PC133 stick lying around and it did the same thing.

OSX Gets part way through the install or even just sits there then power off.

 

Edited by TarableCode

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I tried unplugging every drive except the hard drive I want to install OSX to but still had the same result.

I wonder if maybe this CPU upgrade requires some kind of patch to be installed to NVRAM or something?

 

Thing is there's no markings on it that lead anywhere so I don't know which it is.

 

e:

Took the CPU out to check thermal paste aaaand I bent one of the pins :(

I straightened it with an xacto knife but I don't know... aaaaaaaaa

 

Looks like maybe it needs to be straightened more with a needlenose pliers?

UvuqQSN.jpg

 

 

...Anyway I got the CPU off but the heatsink seems to be cemented on or something so it won't budge and there are still no identifying markings on the CPU.

 

Edited by TarableCode

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Dang edit window passed...

 

This looks like it might be a gigadesign card?

https://sites.google.com/site/overclockmac/g4gigadesigns looks similar or maybe is a clone?

 

If that's the case then the CPU may be configured wrong according to those switches:

10011 Doesn't have an entry in that table for a 133MHz bus speed so maybe that is related?

 

Anyway I'm scared to plug this thing back in until I know what to do about that pin and I reapply thermal paste. (if I can)

 

e:

7LBOLr2.jpg

 

Straightened it out with a tiny tweezers but it looks like a tiny bit of it has been lopped off, damnit why didn't I look for the proper tools?!!!!!

I should have started WITH THE TWEEZERS. Unless that part of the pin broke off in the CPU socket.

 

Is this thing going to be okay or did I just eff up majorly?

 

Edited by TarableCode

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Even weirder stuff:

I scratched off the warranty stickers to reveal a model name that doesn't seem to exist anywhere: PT55 AGP copyrighted 2006.

 

Under another sticker is a set of dip switches that are likely used to select the CPU voltage but there are only 4 positions instead of 5 like the gigadesign board.

Weird stuff.

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Found it: http://web.archive.org/web/20081221044555/http://fastmac.com/downloads/newagpinstall.pdf

 

Everything lines up and seems to be configured correctly so this is a Fastmac CPU card and not a Gigadesigns one.

The heatsink is on there pretty firm so I don't know about repasting it or even if it's overheating and causing the shutdowns.

 

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Have you got system back up and running as it was before you pulled the CPU?  If you can boot in OS 9, you could try running something CPU intensive to see if the problem is overheating.  I'd do that before going down the path of removing the heatsink and repasting it.  It's not a bad idea to do, but I'd troubleshoot elsewhere before going there.  I noticed that you seem to be missing the shroud and fan located between the CPU heatsink and back panel shown in this photo of my Quicksilver.  I don't know how or if that would affect the machine's behaviour, but I do know that fan management is different between Mac OS 9 and OS X.   On my machine, the fans seem to run full speed in OS 9.  While booting up OS X, the OS seems to take control and adjust fan speed.  Have you already reset the PRAM and NVRAM?  How about the PMU?

 

IMG_20190812_104721.thumb.jpg.f09ee019e3337d36460194ecf8caf1e1.jpg

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I've done a few resets before and I can try that again.

I did end up repasting it and it worked for MUCH longer almost finishing the OSX install before shutting off again.

 

The old paste was dry and crumbly so I applied fresh Arctic MX4 and put it all back together, I was super excited to see it finish CD1 of the Tiger install but it seemed to get stuck on the BSD subsystem then died.

Is there any way to find the shutdown reason in a log somewhere? Or check the temperature?

 

e:

AHA!

ApplePMU::PMU FORCED SHUTDOWN, CAUSE = -122

Edited by TarableCode

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Negative shutdown IDs indicate that hardware issue prompted the shutdown and -122 indicates the PMU identified an issue with the power supply.  Typically it means a bad power supply, but can also be a bad PMU.  My Quicksilver is currently dead due to its power supply completely failing.  I think I'm going to do an ATX conversion on it at some point.

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When I first got it the PRAM battery was in backwards.

Leopard installed but kept powering off during that intro movie, finally got passed it by leaving the battery out for 10mins and leaving the case door open.

 

The CPU got fairly hot when closed so maybe that missing fan is an issue as well, I'll have to jury rig something up somehow.

 

Lending evidence to the PSU issue is the fact that the main speaker is very "clicky" and produces kind of noisy output.

Maybe a simple recap is all that's needed or is there something that brings the PSUs beyond user serviceable?

 

9s4qERR.jpg

 

 

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That's actually something this thread prompted me to look at today -- which components fail in these supplies.  Based on forum posts, it seems like output filter capacitors are a common point of failure, along with MOSFETs and sometimes diodes/bridge rectifiers.  It seems to me that Apple compromised these machines with the ADC monitor power supply circuitry.  The computer's power supply not only has to power the base system, five expansion slots, extra hard drive bays, external USB and FireWire peripherals, but it also supplies power over the stock graphics card's ADC connector - 25v DC totalling more than 5A.  Even if you're not powering an ADC monitor, I'm sure that compromises had to be made in regards to the design of the PSU, and it seems like a fully loaded system would push the limits of the power supply even when new.  I'm not suggesting that refurbishing the power supply is a bad idea; I'm still considering it myself, but I think it may provide some context as to why these power supplies seem to be failure prone.  My Quicksilver has had the power supply replaced at least twice at this point-- the last one had a sticker on it from the local AASP when it was installed in the late '00s, and the current dead one was a used pull I bought a couple years ago.

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I have to clean my workbench before embarking on either the ATX conversion or taking the PSU apart and today is just one of those days lol...

Kinda sucks because I REALLY wanted to play with this G4 for a while, maybe get a decent video card in it at some point.

 

When I do I'll be sure to take lots of pics and such.

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The capacitors clustered around the output wire harness are the output filter caps and are one of the more likely suspects if the voltages looked okay.  In your photo, a bunch of them look domed up - unless it's just a trick reflection.

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The one closest to the vent holes has certainly popped it's top.

It's just a question of whether I replace just those output filter caps or whatever I can find.

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If you can find quality replacements for everything within budget, then go nuts on it.*  If I recap mine, I will probably do it in stages to try and identify the failed components, starting with the output filter caps.  I may just bite the bullet and pick up an oscilloscope so I can measure ripple and spikes before and after each stage.

 

*By go nuts, I mean replace all of the radial electrolytic capacitors.  The ceramics, tantalums, and other solid caps are probably fine.

Edited by rsolberg

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Actually it looks like I'm just going to be replacing those.

My hands are just too shaky and I'll be lucky to finish even them.

 

e:

c10    :    16v     2200uF
c13    :    6.3v    2200uF
c16    :    6.3v    2200uF
c21    :    10v    3300uF

 

 

Edited by TarableCode

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Wonder if that's what's going on with my QS '02.  I also have a 1.8GHz G4 upgrade in it, all was well with the original 933MHz CPU but mine shuts off in OS9 rather than OSX, and only at certain times - in Quake III...for example.  I start a game and boom, powers down instantly.  Guess I will be checking my PSU caps.  Keep us posted with your results.

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Will do.

Had to defer to my dad on the soldering so it'll be a few days before I get it back.

 

While I managed to get the caps soldered in the joints were messy and my hands are just too unstable to fix it.

I figured it was best to quit while I was ahead and before I ended up doing some damage somewhere.

 

At least it gives me time to get the rest of the case cleaned up.

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