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BL!

Macintosh SE 800K transfers between PC

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Hi forum! I'm a new user (of this forum)!

 

I have an Macintosh SE with a 800K DD drive. I only have the 4 OS disks that came with the computer (version 6.x.x I think it was). I've ordered a transfer cable (null modem cable) from miniDIN to DB9 to be able to transfer images back and forth.

 

Is there any utility as on the Apple II series ("ADTPro") where you can transfer and bootstrap between the PC (Windows) and the Macintosh SE? If so, any recommendations where to find the software?

 

Are there any other good options to chose from (AppleTalk?) to bridge between the platforms?

 

I know that there is the Floppy Emu and that might be a last resort.

 


TIA!

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PC user here as well - you may not like to read this, but my method involves a gateway computer with a superdrive disk which can deal with both 800k and 1.44 mb disks. System 7 is a must in order to be able to run the tools to extract some archives as well as mount disk images. I often use my Powerbook 180, or my Mac SE/30. I haven't explored the Network side of this issue at all, though. Sounds like even more pain.

Edited by Mu0n

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In your case, if you are not wanting to have a "gateway" machine, you should get yourself a Floppy Emu. Either that or a SCSI2SD for easy SD transfers. I am sure there is some crazy method someone has come up with to bootstrap, but it's not your easiest option. AppleTalk will not work between this and a PC. 

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A "gateway" is fine as I already have one rigged for my Apple II and /// series (with ADTPro). I was kind of hoping on a ADT for Macintosh since ADTPro has worked so fine for the other platforms.

 

If I do need a terminal emulator of some kind to make the initial transfer (assuming there are images of disks that can be "extracted" when it has arrived on the Macintosh) what emulators would be best?

 

Edited by BL!

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4 hours ago, BL! said:

A "gateway" is fine as I already have one rigged for my Apple II and /// series (with ADTPro). I was kind of hoping on a ADT for Macintosh since ADTPro has worked so fine for the other platforms.

 

If I do need a terminal emulator of some kind to make the initial transfer (assuming there are images of disks that can be "extracted" when it has arrived on the Macintosh) what emulators would be best?

 

 

I'm not sure what your exact needs are, but here's my transfer workflow:

 

Modern Windows 10 PC:

HFVExplorer to move files such as .hqx or .sit or .bin you find on the internet to a virtual hard disk file used by emulators (.hfv or .dsk extension).

Basilisk II emulator v0.8 build 142 running the Shapeshifter ROM (Quadra 605 / LC / Performa 475/575) with System 7.5.5. It has tools to extract .hqx, bin and .sit and mount virtual disks

USB disk drive that can deal only with 1.44 mb disks. They can be formatted in Mac HFS format by HFVExplorer.

 

Gateway Mac (Powerbook 180, Mac SE/30 or equivalent)

Some tools are present on these as well. They have some version of System 7 (like 7.5.5). I do have disk image mounting utilities on there which work great. There are also archive extractors if needed.

The gateway mac has to accept 800k disks as well.

 

Target Mac (Mac 128k to Mac SE):
Max System version 7.something (but not too high). Some Utilities of disk image writing can still be done at this step

 

Notes:

 

-At no point must the Mac archive files (.hqx, .sit or .bin) must be extracted on the PC, since you'll lose the resource fork (which contain icons, text strings and various important stuff) for your files, while only accessing the data fork.

-The easiest route is to extract the files in Basilisk II right away. If your app doesn't need to be in its original disk content form (because of copy protection reasons) and it can happily run just be double clicking, without caring where it's located, then you can perform a simple copy using HFVExplorer to a physical disk.

-A less simple route would be to extract a disk image file (400k, 800k, or anything below 1.44 mb) in the emulated environment. Then, you copy that image to a physical disk in HFVExplorer with the goal of mounting the virtual disk in the gateway computer, where the final disk writing (a 800k diskette) will occur.

-The most complicated route is to A) extract in the emulator b) copy the disk image to the gateway c) copy the disk image fle to a 800k disk if it fits d) mount-to-write the disk image on the target computer so you can write to a final (and different) disk. 

-If your target mac is mini-vMac, so that you can test out a Mac Plus or similar, it becomes much more easier. System 7.5.5 and System 6.0.8 can both see the same virtual hard disk file. Have them each have their own booting virtual hard disk, but then create a shared 3rd data virtual hard disk so that they can share stuff to each other.

 

 

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I'm kind of hoping to download diskette images from the Internet to the Windows PC (Windows 7+), transfer them to the Macintosh SE and extract them to diskettes there and from that either use them as diskettes (e.g game) or use the diskettes to make a harddisk installation (e.g Word processor or harddisk based game). I'm also hoping to be able to reverse that (e.g have 800K diskette that I want to image as a backup and transfer that to the PC).

 

For the above purpose I've bought the serial null/transfer cable that is in the mail now from the UK. I assume that there is some kind of diskette imaging tool(s) that I can use on the Macintosh SE given that I've managed to transfer images to the Macintosh SE?

 

It's a process very similiar to using ADTPro for the Apple II/III (but in that case the ADTPro is the transferring program as well as diskette imager/extractor).

 

I know there is a Floppy Emu but that will cost me at least $200 since I'm not in the US (with shipping cost and customs fees) - sure, I could have good use for that for my Macintosh as well as my Apple II/III but right now I want to try (if possible that is) this route first. The cable I've bought now is $25 and I'm just assuming that the Macintosh have a similar solution to the ADTPro or that I can use a terminal emulator to transfer software back and forth.

 

Also, if there isn't any terminal emulator built in the OS or that you can bootstrap in a way similar to ADTPro then I guess I need to get hold of a 800K DD diskette with a terminal emulator to get things going first.

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On a Mac SE, you can probably run Disk Copy 3.5 like so:

 

However, depending on how the disk image file were made, you might not be able to open them with it. It'd require something a bit more modern (and running on System 7+) like Disk Copy 6.1.2 (needs Sytem 7.0.1+) or Disk Copy 6.3.3.

 

Which is why, if you can deal with the "Mount Image + copy out the files" in an emulated environment before copying them to a physical disk, it would open some options for you for some programs (not all!).

 

image.png.df3453ca9940b05008d8c764ddfa9d99.png

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To get things started I first need to get software onto the Macintosh SE.

 

Anybody knows if there is a way transfer anything when just having the OS installed or do I need to get hold of a terminal emulator with ZModem or similiar 1st? If so, which program should I opt for?

 

I guess there isn't anything like ADTPro for the Macintosh, pity, ADTPro is such a good program and perfect for us vintage enthusiasts! :-)

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Unlike their OS X UNIX based newer brethren, original Macs do not have an underlying command-line structure. There is no "background" terminal with which to interface. As you stated, you would need a Terminal emulator to even have that sort of capability, and I wouldn't even know where to start with that. The only other possibility I could even think of is a SCSI2SD, which also is relatively expensive. Long story short is that there is no easy way to get data to an early Mac with no 1.4 MB capability without another Mac that either has a SuperDrive (can read both PC 1.4 MB disks and Mac 800k disks), or that can network with a modern PC via FTP or some such and network with the old Mac via AppleTalk.

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@BL! while I haven’t tried this (hope to one day though, just for kicks), @Dog Cow‘s brilliant blog has a lot of detail on how to use a null modem to bootstrap a vintage Mac from nothing — except you will of course need a floppy disk with a terminal emulator on it to start out.  I’m sure someone on these forums would be happy to help you out with such a thing.

 

See for example (other entries have relevant info too):  https://macgui.com/news/article.php?t=435

 

Edited by Crutch

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What Crutch said is true, the issue is getting the terminal application...a catch-22. Of course, if you want to go this route, I’d be more than willing to make an 800k startup disk with MacTerminal and ship it to you.

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Thanks for that URL! That is definately a good start. I'll study it in more detail and I'll see if I can get hold of a copy of a decent terminal emulator "locally" first, but I wouldn't be surprised if I accept the offer on the disk, LaPorta! :-)

 

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