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ABD Keyboard and Mouse Options?

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I'm starting to look for an ADB keyboard and mouse for my Macintosh SE FDHD. It seems like there are several variants out there. My preference is to have the keypad or extended keyboard.

 

Are there models that are recommended over others?

Are there adapters to use more common interface such as USB or PS/2?

 

I will also be using the keyboard and mouse with 2 other machines, a Macintosh IIci and a Power Macintosh 7200/90, not sure if that makes any difference as those are also ADB as well.

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No difference functionality wise, however the more correct keyboard is the "Apple Keyboard". Has the big border around the keys, has the lines on the sides and stuff. The extendeds are nice and usually cheap, date wise the original extended is the more correct one but it really doesnt matter, the extended I and II both look pretty much the same.  The 7200 came with a later style keyboard, I forget the name though, but you will know it when you see it. Rounded off and beige.. The correct mouse for the SE and II is the tombstone angular mouse.

 

There are a few different choices for adapters. Personally, I would go with the drakware ADB to USB adapter, really cheap for around $20.

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1 hour ago, Johnnya101 said:

No difference functionality wise, however the more correct keyboard is the "Apple Keyboard". Has the big border around the keys, has the lines on the sides and stuff. The extendeds are nice and usually cheap, date wise the original extended is the more correct one but it really doesnt matter, the extended I and II both look pretty much the same.  The 7200 came with a later style keyboard, I forget the name though, but you will know it when you see it. Rounded off and beige.. The correct mouse for the SE and II is the tombstone angular mouse.

 

There are a few different choices for adapters. Personally, I would go with the drakware ADB to USB adapter, really cheap for around $20.

I'll look into those keyboards, also drakware has an adapter to allow you to use an ADB keyboard on a USB system, drakware doesn't have the other way around, unless I missed it.

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BMOW has Wombat which I think allows both directions of USB to ADB. I like the wedge mouse.  I am, however, bias since I am making a custom case for it, but still it’s great and period correct.  The ADB mouse II (teardrop) was ergonomically the most comfortable. 

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1 hour ago, maceffects said:

BMOW has Wombat which I think allows both directions of USB to ADB. I like the wedge mouse.  I am, however, bias since I am making a custom case for it, but still it’s great and period correct.  The ADB mouse II (teardrop) was ergonomically the most comfortable. 

 

34 minutes ago, Crutch said:

The BMOW Wombat is indeed bidirectional ADB-USB. 

 

Thanks for this information, this looks like a great idea!

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Well I found a keyboard for $15, cheapest solution I've found so far, it's an AppleDesign Keyboard M2980, so it'll be decent, now I just need a mouse.

IMG_5516.jpg

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The Apple Design keyboard is what came with the 7200 and I think pretty much all the PowerMacs that didn't use USB.  My 6100 came with it as did my later 7600 and G3 Desktop.  

 

The thing about the Apple Design keyboard is the placement of the ADB port.  It is underneath near the center. And the built in cable so your ADB cable can't get lost.  The Extended II, as many other ADB  keyboards, has the ports on the sides.  The Extended II also has nice Alps mechanical key switches versus the cheaper rubber dome on the Apple Design..

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Historic sidenote: The Power Macintosh 7200 didn't come with a keyboard. Here is its datasheet. Most "Pro" Macs didn't until later.

 

In 1997, the Power Macintosh G3 series was the first group of Macs to be bundled with keyboards(a), and from that model and the iMac in 1998 onward was the first time every computer in Apple's product line included a keyboard until the "BYODKM" Mac mini in 2005. After/alongside that, every other modular Mac (Power Macintoshes G4/G5 and Mac Pro) included a keyboard until the 2013 Mac Pro 6,1 (the cylindrical one) once again dispensed with bundling a keyboard, perhaps so Apple could put it in a tiny box.

 

The 2019 Mac Pro 7,1 ("the second cheesegrater") once again returns to bundling a keyboard.

 

A couple of the super late Gen2 PowerMacs included keyboards, I believe the 7300 and 8600, but the 9600 didn't, and I've seen conflicting information as to whether or not the 8600 even did.

 

Up to that point, only Performas, LCs, and if I'm remembering correctly, the Classic/Classic II and Color Classic included keyboards.

 

Also: The Apple Design Keyboard was introduced in 1994 or so. The Apple Extended Keyboard II was available for purchase until relatively late. Allegedly the AEKII was available as a BTO option on the Beige G3, but I don't know if I've seen anything fully corroborating that.

 

 

(a) Speculative sidenote to the historic sidenote: My personal theory is that if Apple had built the planned Power Express/Power Macintosh 9700, it would not have been bundled with a keyboard, but the G3 curbstomps the 604e and ev, so Apple did not build that machine.

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The early ADB keyboards (Extended keyboard and Extendend II) are the best if you like a quality clickly feel (and probably the most expensive).

 

The smaller (forget the model name) keyboards look better with compacts but kind of suck. The IIgs ADB keyboards are real nice and about the same size and layout if you can find them.

 

That cheap $15 keyboard is what you would expect to find with a beige PPC  machine.

 

 

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Either way stock up on ADB keyboards and mice because I suspect there are more machines in circulation these days then keyboards.

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5 hours ago, Unknown_K said:

The early ADB keyboards (Extended keyboard and Extendend II) are the best if you like a quality clickly feel (and probably the most expensive).

I never took a liking to the first ADB Keyboard or the Extendeds which were so much larger and clunkier than my DataDesk Mac-101 mechanical KBD.

 

5 hours ago, Unknown_K said:

The smaller (forget the model name) keyboards look better with compacts but kind of suck. The IIgs ADB keyboards are real nice and about the same size and layout if you can find them.

That'd be the Apple Keyboard II according to the nameplate on the bottom of mine. not a fave by any stretch of the imagination, but usable.

 

171EA3484DA54CCC0A21DC

 

IIgs KBD is one of my faves for its small size, but I despise L shaped return keys with the terrible backslash/pipe key placement.

 

5 hours ago, Unknown_K said:

That cheap $15 keyboard is what you would expect to find with a beige PPC  machine.

Can't express how much of an improvement the placement of that beautiful straight cord and mouse passthru at the center of the AppleDesign is over the end of the boards placement is on the more popular KBDs. The indented "end" placement of the IIgs board is a big improvement, It's not necessary to crisscross the mouse/KBD cables to make the mouse cable a workable length.

 

m2980-thailand-b-7.jpg

Sure, it's a rubber dome switch board, but that metal plate makes it so much better than your average all plastic version from the PC world. For a non-mechanical switch board it's very usable and the cord makes it perfect for using with any tower config sitting on the floor where it belongs or sharing it between several Macs set up together in a collection.

 

Third party KBDs from DATADESK, MacAlly, Kensington, Adesso etc. are often great alternatives to the Apple branded boards.

 

 

 

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A side note on the smallish ADB KBD layouts:

 

Prototype 128k KBD

IMG_1641.JPG

No cursor keys per SJ decree, but return/backslash are good.

 

The NumPad variant fixed the cursor deficiency, but borked the layout with that damn L return key/backslash/pipe displacement. Bezel galore on the standard, go figure. Don't have one, does the bezel width of the first Mac KBD sides match the CRT bezel width? If so that would be oh so very SJ.

 

DSCN7129.JPG

 

just a tad less bezel or a bit of width added to the right column and it would have worked.

 

Apparently SJ wasn't fond of the escape key either. ::)

 

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11 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

A side note on the smallish ADB KBD layouts:

 

Prototype 128k KBD

IMG_1641.JPG

No cursor keys per SJ decree, but return/backslash are good.

 

The NumPad variant fixed the cursor deficiency, but borked the layout with that damn L return key/backslash/pipe displacement. Bezel galore on the standard, go figure. Don't have one, does the bezel width of the first Mac KBD sides match the CRT bezel width? If so that would be oh so very SJ.

 

DSCN7129.JPG

 

just a tad less bezel or a bit of width added to the right column and it would have worked.

 

Apparently SJ wasn't fond of the escape key either. ::)

 

That “Prototype 128k KBD” is awesome! I’ve read some about Apple history around 1984, it looks like the folks involved in the design of the Apple IIc (Frog Design?) took a pass at the Mac (or at least the keyboard). The original Mac design (including keyboard) is classic but to my eye looks dated compared to the IIc released around the same time.

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I think this thread just made me realize for the first time that the Apple Keyboard II (which I have) and IIgs keyboard (which I don’t) are not the same keyboard!  It looks like the IIgs keyboard has an Esc key, and its Power key is a “key” as opposed to a clicky button.  What are the substantive differences, is it that the IIgs keyboard has the orange ALPS switches and the Apple Keyboard II doesn’t?  (I don’t think I’ve ever opened mine up actually...)

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LOL! That's the only one I haven't posted a picture of so far.

 

keyb0408rdw354_-_1.jpg

 

It's much maligned by the AEK/AEKII crowd, but being the standard equipment model, it really is the only KBD that has the SE/SE30 look about it for display purposes. Mine is probably the only remaining bit from my original SE/Radius16 MacSignmaker workstation. The mouse may still be around, but an unidentifiable member of the rodent clan.

 

 

edit: Found a fabulous mechanical KBD thread. Retrofitting the Apple Keyboard II with mechanical switches might make a great project.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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I actually think that this one look the best with the SE/30:

 

196C0F4B-870E-496A-AC05-222B396CDD16.jpeg.08d91de7f34717bba6fcaf0772d87535.jpeg

 

Obviously, it’s from the same era, but to me it most certainly matches it the best. It is what I usually use with mine.

 

All boils down to personal preference though. 

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I agree with you that it looks better, but somehow the stock KBD looks "righter" to me as an early SE user. I can't find a picture of the VT-100 styled MAC-101 Alps board I replaced it with almost before the SE arrived. The Mac-101e is so much clunkier looking I won't post a pic. Having typed two MAC-101s into the ground it's really the only KBD that looks like it belongs with the SE and IIx I wish I still had. Looks fabulous with the IIfx though. I used the KBDII with the SE after it was relegated to Plotter Server with the arrival of the used IIx/TPD.

 

Now I've got a boxed ADB MAC-101 and the earlier version made for the Mac Plus. An interim version had Plus and ADB connections.

 

What's the model name on the bottom of your fave? I've always been curious about release dates. KBD II shipped with my late '87 release year SE. Did yours ship for the first few months with the SE? They seem rare by comparison.

 

edit: now that I think about it, that ADB design hearkens back more to the original Mac boards with its wider bezels and lack of Snow White appointments like the recessed ridge element of the back section of the KBD II or the clearly Snow White AEK designs. Still looks GREAT however. [;)]

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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The one I posted a pic of is the stock SE keyboard. It’s the “Apple Keyboard” model M0116. According to MacTracker, it was introduced in March of 1987.

 

Mine came with my SE FDHD which I believe is from ‘88 or ‘89.

Edited by PB145B

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That's what I'd figured to be the case, but I thought Apple switched early on and my SE/20 arrived boxed with the KBDII from a VAR with the Radius 16 Accelerator pre-installed. It was ordered in November or December of 1987 and arrived in January 1988. Were there two different production facilities?

 

If yours came from the retail channel it might have been backlogged on the bottom of a non-rotated inventory stack somewhere for quite some time. You lucked out and got the mechanical switched original "stock" version and I got the replacement version.

 

Did the original 1987 Macintosh II have a "standard" KBD? I bought a used IIx used from Sun Remarketing, so I have no clue.

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I had a Mac II in 1987.  Mine had the Apple (Standard) Keyboard M0116, but I believe that was an optional add-on.  I don't think the Mac II came with a keyboard because for the first time one could choose between the Standard or Extended keyboard as options.

 

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Also to add, I haven’t had this thing since new. I’m far too young to have had a machine like this when new :) 

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A bit of googling about reveals that the original Apple Keyboard/Extended Keyboard (M0115/0116) were released in 1987 to match the Mac II and SE, and the Keyboard II was released in 1990 to match the LC.

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