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ABD Keyboard and Mouse Options?

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6 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

I thought Apple switched early on and my SE/20 arrived boxed with the KBDII from a VAR

Apple's own configurations for SE and II did not bundle a keyboard. Anybody buying one of these Macs, or potentially a VAR creating their own bundle, would need to pick a keyboard and buy it on top of the price of the machine. Several Mac II configurations didn't include a video card, either. This was true up through the discontinuation of the IIfx, or whichever no-video II was the last to be discontinued officially.

 

However, the LC, Classic, and Color Classic and several Performas (until the later introduction of the AppleDesign keyboard) bundled the Keyboard II.

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A few notes that haven't been mentioned yet:

 

1. The Apple Keyboard II was also an option for the SE and SE/30 in 1991 with purchase. As I've talked about before here, there were a number of SEs made in early 1991. My school purchased SEs that year with the Keyboard II. However, Apple still sold the original Apple Keyboard that year and would typically show the SE/30 with it in product literature alongside the Classic. I believe the keyboard was discontinued sometime around the Quadra introduction.

 

2. I've heard later model IIGSs were sold with the Keyboard II instead of their traditional keyboard. Can anyone with a 1991-1992 IIGS verify this? Mine is a 1989 and came with the original.

 

3. The Apple Keyboard II presents an interesting variant, and it's the one posted here. Most of the Keyboard IIs had a rainbow Apple next to the power key. At some point in mid-1994, presumably when the AppleDesign Keyboard was introduced, the Keyboard II lost its rainbow Apple in favor of the hollowed-out one. These seem to be somewhat rare, were made for a short time in 1994-1995, and were typically bundled with lower-end systems. They came with the 475s and LCIII+s my school bought that year. I believe this keyboard was discontinued entirely in 1995, but it may have exited the marketplace in 1996.

 

4. Many of these keyboards have variants between them. Country of manufacture will often determine the feel of the keys.

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One can assume that Apple had overlapping stock of keyboards in 1991 after the LC introduction in 1990. It would be interesting to know the sales figures of that era to see what was current manufactured product or simply old stock that had been over manufactured in the preceding period. Looking through my old catalogs and brochures, the product line goes from clean in 1989 to more confused as the 90s dawned. I wish I could find the book, articles on Apple's inventory, as that era had some issues. 

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6 hours ago, AwkwardPotato said:

A bit of googling about reveals that the original Apple Keyboard/Extended Keyboard (M0115/0116) were released in 1987 to match the Mac II and SE, and the Keyboard II was released in 1990 to match the LC.

If you could share a link to that info on the "release date" that would be great. It sounds more to me like it became standard equipment for the LC at that time. My SE came from a VAR with the KBD II at the 87/88 rollover. It was likely developed as a low cost/dome switch option much earlier than the late 1990 LC release. Good, Better, Best is a standard (near ubiquitous) three tier marketing strategy.

 

I wonder how long it was available?

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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I've never seen a solid discontinue date for the AKII , but if I had to hazard a guess, it was discontinued the literal instant the ADK was introduced. I don't thikn I've ever seen keyboard announcements in MacWorld, but I haven't been quite that far back in the PDF archive, myself.

 

Apple very rarely engaged in good/better/best for its keyboards.

 

Both the AK and AEK were good keyboards, but they had different features.

 

The AKII and AEKII were, realistically, also arguably both good keyboards, but because Apple had shifted the Mac entry level downmarket a couple notches, they also arguably ahd different focuses.

 

The Apple Adjustable Keyboard (AAK) was sold alongside the AK and AEK as an "ergonomic" option.

 

Upon its introduction in 1994, the ADK would have become the new budget option.

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1 hour ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

If you could share a link to that info on the "release date" that would be great.

Found it here. Admittedly being a wiki it could definitely be wrong, although I've always found this one to be pretty accurate (bit of a keyboard enthusiast myself). Do you have a serial number/date of manufacture for your keyboard? Given the madness that was usually going on at Apple around that time, I wouldn't be too surprised if they did in fact release the AKII before 1990 :)

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The KBDII I've been using can't be the original KBD that came with my SE as it's 1990, bummer maybe the SE is gone entirely. Maybe it's my memory that's gone as well, it was thirty some years ago? But when the MLA was new I remember being surprised that the KB was so highly valued by members and finally bought one. Keyboard storage boxes are buried pretty deep, so I can't check for a second example of the KBII with an earlier date.

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On 6/7/2019 at 2:33 PM, Cory5412 said:

Historic sidenote: The Power Macintosh 7200 didn't come with a keyboard. Here is its datasheet. Most "Pro" Macs didn't until later.

You are correct. It was my 8600 that came with the Apple design keyboard.  However, my 7200 was a clearance item from MacZone and it actually did include the keyboard.  Probably packed in by them.  It was my first Mac, which is why I know for sure as it was all in the box.

 

Just to add a little more history to this sidetone:  It was not uncommon for retailers, especially mail order retailers which were hugely popular back then, to bundle keyboards (or other things) in with their units.  Most of the time they were included inside the box as mine was. I bought many systems over the years from MacZone/Mac Warehouse all the way through the G4 era.  Often times you would get extras that you didn't get if you bought it at an actual store.  

 

Quote

In 1997, the Power Macintosh G3 series was the first group of Macs to be bundled with keyboards

That's not correct.  Actually the 8600 did indeed come with an Apple Keyboard, Here is the spec sheet

Edited by Zippy Zapp

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Hm. Was it an ADK or AEKII? Was it in its own retail box or part of the accessories box for the rest of the system? I have seen keyboards listed on either the 7300 or 7600's datasheet, but also, catalog resellers value-adding a bundled keyboard wasn't at all uncommon.

 

Curiously, the 8600 specifically lists a keyboard, and the 7600 doesn't. Given that the 8600 was a higher targeted machine with users that would be more likely to want to choose their own keyboard (On the 7200, Apple even says you might use it in a home office type environment, a segment really reserved for the 4400/6400.)

 

 

Of course, regarding Apple and weird bundling: I've said the same thing about the 8600/9600 and Zip drives, too. I have no idea why Apple thought Zip was going to be a value-add for that market. People buying those machines routinely worked with files that exceeded 100 megs (Iomega and/or SyQuest, I forget which one, was advertising >1GB cartridge drives in like 1997), and weren't often exchanging collections of files over 1.44 megabytes with users of lower end home/soho machines where the bundling of Zip drives specifically (due to wide retail availability of the media in places like Walmart and Target) mattered.

 

 

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Zip was ubiquitous when it came to physical service bureau transfer media pretty much until optical disk and online file transfers took over. An Illustrator page layout file might be much larger than 100MB total, but the file itself and attachments could easily be broken down across multiple 100MB chunks. Other media may have been Betamax quality, but zip was VHS good enough.

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50 minutes ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Zip was ubiquitous when it came to physical service bureau transfer media pretty much until optical disk and online file transfers took over. An Illustrator page layout file might be much larger than 100MB total, but the file itself and attachments could easily be broken down across multiple 100MB chunks. Other media may have been Betamax quality, but zip was VHS good enough.

Indeed, though I don't recall ever seeing an Illustrator file that large in the 90s.

 

As a printer, we accepted files from professional graphic designers as well as amateur desktop publishers.  The latter tended to get the files setup correctly more often.  When SyQuest 44 and 88 cartridges were standard, very few people had them.  Back then, people either gave us something on a floppy disk or we'd have to recreate it or, occasionally, scan it (but scanning quality often was lacking back then).

 

When the Zip drive came out, it seems everyone was using those, from designers to desktop publishers to the guy on the street that needed his résumé printed.  Other media never really caught on, it seems, because we basically went from floppies to Zip disks to CD-ROMs, then USB Flash drives.  Throughout the period, there were occasional transfers via eMail or FTP.  But most came on physical media.  In the 90s, unless the file was small, it was usually faster to overnight a Zip disk then transfer via modem or Internet.

 

But, regardless, Zip drives were useful though I wish I would had transferred more stuff from Zip to CD or other media before too many disks experienced the infamous click of death.

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My first job out of college (graduated in the summer of 1991 so probably early 1992) was working in the factory of a Roto-Engraver. They would get designs in on a Syquest 44/88 disk which I seen in the office area but don't recall what it was connected to. They did color separation to be diamond engraved on to large heavy copper plated steel cylinders that were later chrome plated and shipped to printers who would print stuff like cereal boxes and cartons of cigarettes.

 

Syquest was around in industry in the early 90's before the zip came out in 1994 and blew up a few years later.

 

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7 hours ago, Cory5412 said:

Hm. Was it an ADK or AEKII? Was it in its own retail box or part of the accessories box for the rest of the system? I have seen keyboards listed on either the 7300 or 7600's datasheet, but also, catalog resellers value-adding a bundled keyboard wasn't at all uncommon.

 

Curiously, the 8600 specifically lists a keyboard, and the 7600 doesn't. Given that the 8600 was a higher targeted machine with users that would be more likely to want to choose their own keyboard (On the 7200, Apple even says you might use it in a home office type environment, a segment really reserved for the 4400/6400.)

Both my 7200/75 and 8600/300 came with Apple Design keyboards for which I still have.  I believe at the time the AEKII was premium and they probably wouldn't have bundled it.  All the Performas and the 4400 and 6400 came with ADK too.  Looking back to 1996 when I received the 7200 I know for sure it shipped in the box and I am almost certain it came in the accessories box inside.  I only received one box from MacZone.   And it shipped in the Power Macintosh 7200 box with no outer box.

 

I actually didn't buy a Mac at a retail store until the PowerMac G5 came out, for which I bought at CompUSA so who knows what store retailers did at the time.  Perhaps it was an automatic to include the ADK as part of the bundle with a monitor for people that were buying Macs at the time.  It seems like Apple did this cheap maneuver only for a year or two.  The 4400 came out in 1996 and the 8600 in 1997.  What about Quadras and earlier Mac II's etc.  Did they not include the keyboard with those?  I was not a Mac user until the PowerPC era so I didn't pay much attention until then.

Edited by Zippy Zapp

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The Classic/LC/CC were the first ADB Macs to bundle a keyboard. None of the Quadras did, none of the earlier Power Macintoshes did, and officially on paper, none of the Power Macintosh 7000 series did. (For all intents and purposes, we can count the 4400 and 6500 as Performas for this discussion.)

 

The 8600 is the first high-end Mac that officially included a keyboard in the box with the machine. Unless Apple also packed ADKs in with 7300s and 7600s and 9600s and never updated the datasheets (A possibility, some of these machines sold for several years and Apple speedbumped things and did other things): it was with the third generation of PPC machines that a bundled became standard across the entire line.

 

So, what I'm really asking above (and why I asked if it might have been an AEKII) was whether the dealer (Zones, it sounds like, in your case) included the keyboard as a value-add gimme inside a larger shipping box or as part of the order, or if it was actually in the box with the computer.

 

I don't disbelieve you, I'm just interested because it's not what Apple's documentation and datasheets say. In the second-gen PowerPC era, it makes more sense for the 7000 machines to have bundled a keyboard than the 8000 ones to have done, and the 8500 itself doesn't have a keyboard listed either. I don't happen to have seen the 7300 datasheet.

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Gotcha.  Yeah, like I said above, I know it was the ADK and I know it shipped inside the 7200 box as I only received one box and it was the PowerMac box.  I never used an AEKII until about 2010 when someone gave me one.  

 

I was oblivious to the fact back then that PowerMacs did not come with a keyboard.  I didn't even know that officially the 7200 didn't come with one until this thread, which is why I was amazed.  Some of my Amiga friends moved over to Macintosh in the early 90's and I actually went the DOS route because I thought the Mac prices were a total joke.  The only reason I bought the 7200 was because it was a PCI PowerMac and it was a special deal at $499 + shipping, brand new.  Yep, it was a steal and I could not pass it up. 

 

Thanks for cluing me in on these interesting history facts as I had no idea Apple didn't provide keyboards in the box of all Macs.  Was it to save money or was it to give you choice?  Since I didn't know about it at the time, I can't really say.  My friends mostly bought Performa models and they always came with a keyboard, to my knowledge.  

 

As for back to the threads topic with all the mouse and keyboard options what is your favorite?  I have 3 different models of keyboards.  I have several Apple Design keyboards and I consider them to be the cost reduced model.  Good asthetics, decent typing.  I have an Apple Extended II and of course these are amazing with alps switches.  I also have a Japanese version of the MacAlly 105 keyboard.  I like this keyboard because it has that clicky sound. Well, more like a clacky sound, since it is mechanical.  The only other keyboard I have owned was one that my friend gave me, a split ergonomic keyboard that I hated and gave away recently.  

 

As for mouse selections:  The ADB II was the first mouse I used. I still have it and a couple of Kensington trackballs which are cool. Someone gave me one of the original Apple square ADB mouse versions and it is decent too.  

Edited by Zippy Zapp

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Wandering a bit from the current track of the thread, this is my current favorite ADB mouse:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-64475-Mouse-Box-Mouse/dp/B000052WM6

 

I was using a second generation (tear drop) Apple ADB mouse and before that I was using a NeXT ADB mouse.    Both of them picked up crud on the rollers way too often.  Even when using them with a 3M Precise Mousing Surface.

 

I don't know if it's luck or good engineering, but the Kensington rollers don't seem to gum up.  The teflon pads on the bottom do collect crud (perhaps protecting the rollers) but it is easy enough to remove that every so often with a fingernail.

 

Also, the Kensington has a heftier weight to it.  It feels more like the old Mac Plus mouse in terms of weight, instead of the featherweight ADB mice.   I find the extra weight makes my motions feel more precise and less strainful to hit my click points.

 

Of course, for USB, I'd just use an optical mouse, but for ADB, I really like the Kensington.  Anyone ever make an optical ADB mouse?

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23 minutes ago, trag said:

Of course, for USB, I'd just use an optical mouse, but for ADB, I really like the Kensington.  Anyone ever make an optical ADB mouse?

One could use BMOW’s Wombat adapter and plug an optical USB mouse into an ADB port, right?  I have one but have yet to actually try this.

 

Going much farther back, I remember an optical mouse that plugged into a 128k/512k/Plus DB-9 mouse port circa 1986.  It was called the “A Plus Mouse” and required a special reflective pad with a printed grid on it.

Edited by Crutch

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19 minutes ago, trag said:

Wandering a bit from the current track of the thread, this is my current favorite ADB mouse:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-64475-Mouse-Box-Mouse/dp/B000052WM6 

My favorite was the Kensington Thinking Mouse.  I guess they weren't common because I don't recall ever seeing an ADB version up for sale on eBay.  I've seen PS/2 versions but not ADB.

I had one at work and one at home.  I believe the one at work died a long time ago but the one at home still works, except the rubber siding is wearing off badly.

 

The Kensington Thinking Mouse has four buttons and, if I recall, if you push two together, it acts as a fifth button.  Or maybe it had a scroll wheel that works as a fifth button.  Not sure right now.  At any rate, it has five buttons and they are all programmable.  Plus, you could program them per application.  In PageMaker, I'd have a button set up for Copy and another set up for Paste.  For games, I might have a button set up as a rapid fire button where one click would generate four clicks.  Stuff like that.

 

Wish I would have bought more back then so I could use them on more Macs.

 

 

19 minutes ago, trag said:

Anyone ever make an optical ADB mouse?

I am reasonably sure someone did.  Seems I recall seeing them available back in the day.  Don't recall who made them though.

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