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PotatoFi

3D Print Replica HD 20 SC Enclosure?

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I think sanding and painting 3D prints takes more patience that I've got. On top of that, the "natural" look of 3D printed parts just doesn't bother me - I think the look is pretty cool. I have 3D printed stuff all over my house! But hey, if this works, and someone wants to take a crack at sanding and printing their own case, I would be more than happy to print one up for them!

 

@maceffects is sending a hard drive my way, so I can get to work on modeling.

 

As for @Trash80toHP_Mini's ideas have me thinking about modularity. Trash80, lemme get the original model made, and let's see what we can do about making it modular. If you could drop a CD drive in there, or if you could drop a bracket for a SCSI2SD, that would be pretty cool! Getting the initial model done and printed as a proof of concept is the first step. The big, BIG challenge is seeing if this thing is even printable. We'll see what happens!

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On a regular/personal note, this is an interesting idea.

 

I'll admit, I would be tempted to suggest that we should think about whether or not there's another viable donor for SCSI enclosures for SCSI2SDs (Zip drives?) or if it would be more reasonable to build something a little more sized to how big the SCSI2SD actually is.

 

That said, I 100% understand the appeal of the Apple "SC" enclosures.

 

If I were designing something new to build, perhaps just build it like a generic plastic SCSI case, suitable for a SCSI2SD, CD-ROM, SQ, or whatever.

 

The biggest thing I would think would be a challenge would be sourcing the needed SCSI bits, without cannibalizing another case, at which point, from a practical perspective, why not just clean and use that case.

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Tangent time? [;)] There is such a thing and it might be doable for use across a wide range of Macs.

 

The SCSI bits are the easiest thing about this project. The pair shipped free for $9.98 from Amazon.

 

51ZZ5TtFmdL.jpg

 

One or three of the very inexpensive IDC female header connectors can go on the ribbon cable inside. ID's and Termination to be handled at the installed device level.

 

To do a generic case, print only front bezel and backplane for fitting to an available switchbox can, project box or other kind of off the shelf metal(?) container that's set up for being stuffed and having its ends plugged up.

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12 hours ago, PotatoFi said:

Trash80, lemme get the original model made, and let's see what we can do about making it modular. If you could drop a CD drive in there, or if you could drop a bracket for a SCSI2SD, that would be pretty cool! Getting the initial model done and printed as a proof of concept is the first step. The big, BIG challenge is seeing if this thing is even printable. We'll see what happens!

Cool, both my of drives are handy on the display. I'll keep measuring, left the printouts at work so I can't use the gauge I set up to test my 1.75mm roundover radius guesstimation. Top view is the same radius on the corners more or less. Front to back looks to be 266mm. If you pick my PDFs apart in AI you'll have all the measurements you asked for, but I'm really curious as to how closely our measurements will wind up being when you get me's case into your hands.

 

There looks to be more than enough clearance underneath a CD for your SCSI2SD.

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That's SCSI wiring. How about ID selection? Are those apparatus still generally available?

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ID selection on enclosures is a nice feature, not a necessity. That's why I said  ID's and Termination to be handled at the installed device level, especially in the case of having SCSI2SD AND an optical drive inside. You could do jumper blocks for both  settings on the backplane easily enough, but confusing and featuritis. KISS is the operating principle here. Anyone using a hacker oriented enclosure (SCSI2SD is an elegant hack even if it's now considered standard equipment) ought to be up on how to configure SCSI devices on both ends of the chain, internal to the Mac and an external chain/basic enclosure.

 

I posted the link to a pair of connectors not just because they cost less than singletons, but because provision for an external terminator would be a requirement for a not-end-of-chain enclosure and KISS principle adherence.

 

P1010070.thumb.JPG.f6b9842904ab8c1501417778cdbb4022.JPG

 

In this shot the assembly might be more clearly illustrated than fully in position. It was already like this for playing with SCA drives and such. I'd use the ferrite ring in a build. Though it's probably not a necessity it clearly falls within the class of best practices.

 

Note the raised platform for the 1/2 Height 20MB HDD, it provides airflow across the bottom of the drive. Neat design feature. Is the original form factor drive set up the same way or did it use a 3/4 Heignt MFM Drive?

 

That platform's just about where you'd install an optical drive, so the cubic underneath is all gravy for the SCSI2SD installation. That's why I suggested setting the case up as dual-purpose right from the get go. SCSI2SD mounting points and Optical Drive mounts as above should be provided for in the very first prototype IMHO. We don't need worry about the height of the supports, just aim a tad low for using spacers to determine final spec. :approve:

 

My other suggestion would be designing to use of an available PSU. It would be really nice to have a single switch on the enclosure provide passthru power to the SE/SE/30 on a short monitor cable for turning the Compact on from the switch on the enclosure. If a UL approved enclosure PSU with a power passthru can be sourced, I'd suggest aiming for that in the initial prototype would be also be advisable. Yes these features would complicate the initial design phase, but simultaneous design/prototyping would save a LOT of $$$$$$ overall. [:P]

 

As another initial prototype departure from the target design: dividing the case into a Mac II style frontspiece w/o chin, a bolt-up backplane and top/bottom sections might be a good idea? Once designed as standalone units, top/bottom sections would be set up in the form of a rectangular tube with cutaway tabs between for doing them in a single vertical print. That way the parts would be supporting each other. Full length tabs with score lines on both sides would probably be better for printing and even for separation?

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You proably know this: SCSI2SD is unique-ish among SCSI devices in that you pre-configure it before you install it wherever it's going to go, it doesn't have jumpers. Additionally, SCSI2SD itself can emulate multiple devices if need be. I've never used this functionality, but it's possible to have it present as, say, a CD-ROM drive and two hard disks.

 

For everything else, if there was a source for those selectors, it would make re-configuring machines and moving devices around way more convenient.

 

That said, there's definitely a question about how much we need an Apple SC enclosure to be "original-like" if fewer and fewer users of SCSI-having Macs have a need to set up a big chain with several devices. For everything else, it kind of makes sense just to use the provided enclosure. If you go buy a 200MB 5.25 SyQuest drive off eBay for example, there's a reasonable chance it comes in the APS or PowerUser case it shipped with when new, such as https://www.ebay.com/itm/153436342461 (the 200MB drives in particular are actually frequently available bare, but you could slot it into the enclosure from a cd-rom drive or a 44mb drive.)

 

From a purely practical perspective, if the replica enclosure is being used to house a SCSI2SD, a small power supply (like, a cell phone charger), and the SCSI wiring are really all you need.

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I  vaguely recall such things, but not really up on the SCSI2SD thing and won't be until I get the Fast/Narrow v6 or a later Fast/Wide version.

 

The biggest reason for using a takeoff on the HD 20SC is that a ZFP enclosure raises a Compact to a neck strain relieving, ergonomically correct CRT level on top of being reminiscent of POWER USER 8)

 

On the tangential SCSI2SD enclosure development front, gotta find the right attachment for what was to be my original suggestion, but here's one for SLA prototyping production. Only the cover panel would need to be printed, the balance of the build could be laser cut parts with the sides and bottom being one unit with two easily done bends:

 

 

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BackPac/Bacster enclosure is almost perfect for installing a caddy loader in a clear case behind a clear SE/30 bucket. You'd need to internalize a higher capacity PSU for it to work, but mimicing a side-slot loading iMac with a caddy loader equipped SE/30 could be delicious.

 

Here's the serious suggestion I floated in the 3D Printed Objects thread some time ago.

 

ClipperDrive.JPG

 

Do it in a lower profile case to hide SCSI2SD behind the II/IIcx form factor?

 

</tangent>

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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My thought for a SCSI2SD case would basically be something looking vaguely like the FloppyEmu case. Even the SCSI2SDv6 is small enough that a case can almost certainly be printed on a cheap home 3d printer easily, or be printed by a service and mailed out. I would be 100% unsurprised to find out there already is one.

 

If you wanted to go totally wild, you could model and build a replica of one of Apple's various 3.5" external drives.

 

I understand the appeal of ZFP drive enclosures, and sticking a SCSI2SD in one of the taller ones, such as Apple's, does solve a couple different problems, and produces a neat cohesive appearance. If it's easier and if the main goal is ergonomics, looks, and a SCSI2SD, a potential option is to just build the case and leave a big hole in the back to slide the scsi2sd into.

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If you start a new thread for your alternate SCSI2SD case build tangent, I'll throw some graphics up. Clipper2SD would be the bomb. The last thing we need is a cabled DongleSD, but I like your notion for plugging the board into something. But any case would need to go with the RetroMac Flow IMO.

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11 minutes ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

But any case would need to go with the RetroMac Flow IMO.

Legit question: Why?  (And/Or: What do you consider to be "the RetroMac Flow")

 

None of the wifi bridges "look the part", the FloppyEmu doesn't try to hide what it is. Why would a SCSI2SD run externally (which is currently a niche solution anyway) need to be any different? Plus there's things like VGA adapters we've been using for literally 20+ years to run these machines with modern displays, and the new work on reverse ADB adapters to make newer keyboards and mice work, plus the discussion about modern graphics card implementations.

 

 

As far as I can tell, using SCSI2SDs externally is fairly uncommon, so there's not a particularly huge incentive to build a dedicated case for them. My ideas here were mainly about things that could be done to make building this case easier, but I probably misread intentions on SCSI2SD usage.

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I've hated everything that pushed the Mac (or any computer) farther from a vertical surface than absolutely necessary in every instance from day one. The only thing worse than an inline VGA Adapter is that hellucious x100 Video port's adapter cable KLUGE from Apple! Heck. I prefer RA power cords where they'll push the damn Mac back a little further to clear a bit of work surface. That one got lost somewhere in the Classic Mac shuffle and shouldn't have.

 

Putting everything you've mentioned into a single case with connections for straight cables to plug in at every point of the compass so as to be parallel to the backplane for connecting to anything outside the box and with pigtail RA/Straight cables to head into the box would be fabulous. One inch space from backplane to wall would be the Holy Grail or Peripheraldom. :approve:

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Ah - That's a different kind of preference than what I had been imagining.

 

I was not, just for the record, intending to suggest hanging a SCSI2SD directly off the SCSI port on the back of a Mac. I haven't actually seen one of the new 5.1s in action, are they wired that way? Does the FloppyEmu hang out that way? I had been under the impression those were wired with a relatively slim ribbon cable.

 

Regarding cabling - I don't disagree, but it's funny you single out power cables, because in the '90s almost every Apple cable was longer, even some of the ADB cables.

 

I also get a little bit of enjoyment out of the thought because a frequent comparison I see is between Apple's lightning cable and, say, the PB1x0/QT1x0 power brick, with the implication that Apple made better cables in the '90s.

 

Regarding PowerMac X100 mess: It's even worse if you have a DOS-equipped 6100, and it's even worse than that if you have a DOS 6100 and also an AudioVision. There are a handfull of pictures of on the Internet, it's basically the DOS dongle, plus the HDI45 to DB15 adapter, then the everything-to-HD45 adapter, and then the actual HDI45 display connector.  and the AudioVision's display cable is exactly as fat as you think it is, which means there will be a lot of strain if any of this hangs unsupported off the back of a table.

 

The other thing to consider though is that most Macs (all minitowers, almost all of the desktops, perhaps save the 630/6200) vent their heat backward. Most computer manuals recommend six inches of room at the back, which is generally enough even for the most gnarly of adapter combinations and/or biggest and least flexible connections (AudioVision/HDI45, SCSI, PowerBook video adapters, Apple's own video connectors in the '80s and '90s, etc.) I normally get away with less, but I'm also not overclocking or loading my old Macs down with multiple disks or lots of high powered NuBus cards. If I had a 950 or IIfx with a lot of the high end upgrades like Rockets or Symbolics hardware, accelerated graphics cards, etc, I would give it a lot of breathing room.

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Anyway, my thought about an easy SCSI2SD box was absolutely a box with a big open hole you can route a scsi cable and a phone charger through. You cuold back that directly up to the wall, but I know of no SCSI cables that would let you have the Mac it was connected to under two or three inches from whatever surface was behind the machine.

 

This is, again, unrelated, but I typically run my tables about 2-3 inches in front of the actual wall, so a relatively unladen, say, compact Mac without a SCSI connection would be able to sit directly lined up to the back of the table -- but I've also long given up on tables that aren't big enough to house a computer.

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Side note: it was the ridiculous cables for hooking the FDD and SCSI peripherals up to my remaindered, but brand spanking new to me PowerBook 100 that made me loose my schiznit. :p

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@PotatoFi Ya got SC yet? When it comes in be sure to go by the ServiceSource and remove the lid VERY carefully. I snapped a side clip on the AppleCD SC the first time I cracked it, so to speak. HD20 is fine, but I've only opened it twice and closed it but once. Since then I've left it pop topped with just the front edge aligned so it looks like it's buttoned up sitting way up high on the display. I set up all kinds of crap in the base unit hooked up to the PSU and for setting up HDDs out of box in general.

 

You've got a 9x9 table right? Printing scaled models seems the way to go. Maybe scale it down from 5.25 to 3.5 form factor for prototyping? One of the little power bricks that come with cheap USB/IDE/SATA adapters would snuggle right down into the PSU nook in that size model and DB-25 scales nicely down from Centronics-50 as well.

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9 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

@PotatoFi Ya got SC yet? When it comes in be sure to go by the ServiceSource and remove the lid VERY carefully. I snapped a side clip on the AppleCD SC the first time I cracked it, so to speak. HD20 is fine, but I've only opened it twice and closed it but once.

Not yet, I'll post an update when it comes in.

9 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

You've got a 9x9 table right?

My build envelope is 9.84 x 8.3 x 8 in, which means I'll have to do at least a 2-piece print (probably 3). When the hard drive gets here, I will start to make design decisions.

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43 minutes ago, PotatoFi said:

My build envelope is 9.84 x 8.3 x 8 in, which means I'll have to do at least a 2-piece print (probably 3)

Yah, that's what I thought. That's what got me thinking you should design to convenient modules for production at full size, but do your initial prototyping at 80%. Someone with a full scale capable printer is bound to jump in to help. Any measurement takeofff from the prototypes are straight up 125% multiples back to norm. That's one of my favorite conversion, near lossless pairs for going the scored cardboard prototype from letter.legal size PDFs.

 

Doing it that way should save on time, money and hair loss over the course of the project. [:P]

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The drive enclosure should arrive there by the end of the week, don't worry guys :).  I agree that a scale prototype would be best.  Once it is refined enough and if the OP wants, I will have a SLA clear printed case produced. 

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Ok, drive received. Looks to be in nice shape. Sadly it did not include the correct SCSI cable so I can't test it, but it did include a terminator. But... that's not what we're here for. It is a bit deeper than I thought... so I'd have to get really creative to print full-scale on my Prusa, but I have some ideas. I can't tackle it right away, maybe this weekend?

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Printing in sections and then bonding is a good option. For my first case prototype I printed the rear bucket in 4 sections then bonded them together and it worked quite well given the limited print area. 

Edited by maceffects

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