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mraroid

how to run OS 9 and OSX on the same machine?

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Hi...
 
I have a Blue & White G3, soon to be updated to a G4 processor on a Yikes! motherboard.
 
I have OS 9.2.2 installed on my hard drive and all seems fine.  I tried to load Tiger (10.4).  Tiger said it had to erase the hard drive and install a new file system, so I backed off.
 
I am unsure how to have OS 9 plus OSX running on the same machine.  Do I install Tiger first, and then OS 9.22?  I thought they could live on the same partition, but that was just a guess.  I divided my hard drive into two partitions in case I have to install OS 9.22 on one partition and Tiger on the other.  Is that how it is done?
 
Apple talk is running great between my Blue & White and my Mystic Color Classic.  I have a icon on the Mystic (running 8.1).  I can down load a file on the Blue & White and drop it in the shared folder and it appears in the Color Classic.  I am *SO HAPPY* I can do this.  While my Mystic can surf the internet (like Macintosh Garden for example) moving around in Mac Garden was very slow.  Everything is much faster on the Blue & White.
 
mraroid

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They can be on the same partition, however, how is the hard drive formatted now?  Mac OS standard or Mac OS extended?  That may be part of the problem.

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56 minutes ago, Brett B. said:

They can be on the same partition, however, how is the hard drive formatted now?  Mac OS standard or Mac OS extended?  That may be part of the problem.

Hummm.  I installed OS 9.2.1 accepting all the defaults.  I just booted to my 9.2.1 apple CD and ran disk repair on my hard drive to see if it would tell me.  It says:

 

Checking "Mac OS Standard" Volume Structure

Checking Wrapper System File

Checking "Mac OS Extended" Volume Structure

Checking for locked Volume name

 

I do not have any tools (that I know of) to check my format type.

 

I take it I should choose Mac OS Extended when I install OS 9.2.2?

 

I can re install the OS again if need be.

 

Do you think that is it?

 

Thank you for helping me.

 

mraroid

 

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I believe you must use Extended aka HFS+ on a partition that will also have OS X on it.  OS 9 doesn't really care.  

 

Someone will correct me if I'm leading you astray here, it has been quite a few years since I was reinstalling Tiger on a regular basis.

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Just looked in Drive Setup.  It said my partition was Mac OS Extended.  I see other, non Mac format options other then standard.

Maybe I need to install OS X first, then install OS 9 after that?

 

If I install OSX first, which file format option should I choose? 

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

mraroid

 

 

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5 hours ago, AlpineRaven said:

I find it easier to install OSX.4 first then OS9 on the top

OK.  Thank you AR.  I will give that a try.

 

mraroid

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Interesting.  I don't think I've ever installed OS X first on a dual boot machine.  Keep us updated, I'm sure it's something simple.

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I will report back.  I just realized that my Tiger disks are DVDs and the stock optical reader in my Blue & White is a CD reader only.  Guess I need to upgrade my optical drive.

I do have two Jaguar CDs, so I will try that.

 

Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

mraroid

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I had another idea.  I have read that Apple issued two firmware updates to the G3 Blue & White.  One update is called 1.1 and the second one is called 1.2.

Can I go into my B&W and check which firmware update is installed?

Also, can anyone post a link to the firmware updates?

 

I should probably do this before I do anything else...

 

mraroid

 

 

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I have OSX that I don't use installed on a partition of 9.2.2 boot drive I use occasionally. Dunno how I got that done many years ago, but I wouldn't do it again, ever. If one OS has a catastrophic failure it can chew up the entire drive. HDD prices aren't what they were when those machines and operating systems were new and make keeping different operating systems on their own drives a great strategy IMO.

 

On the B&W front, there are the original, first release boards which can be problematic or are less capable anyway and a much better revised version. I'd check that first. I got a B&W board for a bridge machine build and dropped it right out of the starting gate when I learned about that difference and checked my board.

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I found something called:

 

Boot ROM Version - 1.1f4

 

That might be it.  I will read the links posted to find out.

Thank you again.

 

mraroid

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I found links to the firmware updates for the Blue & White.  But none of the web sites can be accessed from the browsers I have on the blue & white.  So I guess I will have to pass on the updates for now, and just press on.

 

20 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

On the B&W front, there are the original, first release boards which can be problematic or are less capable anyway and a much better revised version. I'd check that first.

I have the V2 board in my Blue & White.  So I hope that helps.

 

mraroid

 

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Hello...
 
 To recap, I have a Blue & White G3, 400Mhz, V2 motherboard and a 128 GB solid state hard drive.
 
At first I instilled 9.2.1 from my Apple branded CD and then updated it to 9.2.2.  Then I tried to install Jaguar (10.2.3) from my Apple branded CDs.  It would not take it.  So I wiped the drive and installed 10.2.3.  During install, I found a option box (which was already checked) that said to check this box, if you want to install 9.2 drivers.  So I left that box checked.  The install went fine with no errors.  I could do a cold boot and a reboot and it all looked good. 
 
I popped in my 9.2.1 CD and tried to do a install. But 9.2.1 wanted to restart to the CD and do the install so that is what happened.  It booted to the CD, and then I started the install.  I got a screen that said I had to select a folder to install 9.2.1 and it directed me to a second screen.  On that screen, the only thing listed was the one hard drive I have, and it was listed as 10.2.3.  It said that selection could not take 9.2.1. 
 
That was yesterday.  I have tried to do this install over and over several times, trying different things and nothing has worked.  I tried again today and still no luck.
 
I thought an early OSX and OS 9.2 could live together on the same partition?  I have tried every option I can think of, and I can not make it happen. 
 

If all else fails, I suspect I can make two partitions and install an early OSX on one, and 9.2.2 on the other partition.   But I would rather figure out what I am doing wrong and fix it.

 
I have an adapter on the SATA solid state drive that converts it back to ATA.  I removed it and tried another one but that did not change anything.  When I run disk first aid, it can not find anything wrong with my hard drive. It is not suppose to be this hard.  I thought it was common to have OS 9.22 and a early OSX live on the same partition. 
 
Can anyone give me any pointers?
 
Thanks
 
mraroid
 
 
 
 
 

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On 1/31/2019 at 11:57 AM, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

 If one OS has a catastrophic failure it can chew up the entire drive. HDD prices aren't what they were when those machines and operating systems were new and make keeping different operating systems on their own drives a great strategy IMO.

 

I may have to do that Trash.  I cannot get them to live together on the same partition.  One drive and two partitions?  Or two drives? 

Thoughts?

 

mraroid

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This is not an answer, at all, mostly reminiscing on the not always great times.., I remember having trouble getting OS 9 and OS X 10.4 to work on the same partition on a Sawtooth many years ago.

 

Was it "common" to have OS 9 running with OS X? Sure, sort of. There was a gnarly period where OS X was the future that not everybody was ready for up until OS 9 was pronounced dead when Panther (10.3) was ready for prime time. That brief period was Mac OS X 10.2 with a Classic-ready Mac OS 9 directory sold as an option. Essentially Apple was in awkward OS transition mode while they were keeping the company afloat with iPod sales, the iMac G4 got some headlines in Macworld and TIME but wasn't as successful as hoped. Web browsing sucked until Safari got better. Firefox was bloated and slow. Internet Explorer, get outta here. ::-) OS 9 didn't even have a Firefox.

 

Oh those were the days that I don't miss.

 

I think that's why I keep Mac OS 9 in its own partition, its own world when possible. It's great for running 90s software fast, but 2000s software never felt right on it.

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Well, if I can't figure it out, I will do the same and load each OS onto a separate partition.

 

It has been quite vexing.....  :-(

 

mraroid

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Sequester each OS on own HDD and choose one or the other as your boot disk for any given session. Work files made under either OS stay on that drive, but back each set of files up in a folder on the other drive. You could set each drive up with the OS and apps in its own large partition with a small second partition for backups from its opposite number.

 

Redundancy rocks. Two real drives are ALWAYS better than one drive with two partitions. Not always practical, but better wherever, whenever for whatever. :approve:

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I can not argue with you Night.  It all makes good sense.  The main reason I am working on this B&W is to make a support

Mac for my Color Classic Mystic.  I want to learn 9.22 and a early version of OSX. 

 

It would be awkward to down load files in OSX and then somehow transfer them to 9.2.2.  I also want to link this B&W via appletalk to my Mystic.  I want to down load files on the B&W, and then drop them into a shared folder/drive so they appear in the Mystic.  I guess that can happen under OSX?

 

mraroid

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It's good to put your requirements up front in a post like this. If you're only using the B&W as a bridge machine/training /plaything you can easily get away with using one drive with two partitions and keep your downloads backed up on CD-RW.

 

<TLDR>

 

My own method for transferring files might be handier and more secure than what you're planning: I use my dedicated, quarantined Win10 Firefox workstation for downloads where they are in primary, easily searched storage when I'm not using the QS. I started transferring files by thumb drive to the QS, where the archive remains backed up there in solid state and on the QS as well for triple redundancy. I then transfer my files via Zip to the toys in my collection. Networking would be easier, but I've always preferred sneakernet to networking which I find to be more of a hassle. The reason for this is that I use the QS/OS9 for doing my graphics work and I've lost a couple of drives over the years. One to failure of the original drive from my DA, which was moved to the QS backup machine after a PSU magic smoke containment failure. The second one was lost to corruption due to my own foolishness in installing a too large partition in a Beige G3 without doing my homework after a second magic smoke incident. That one had the files that were "backed up" from the first and not backed up after becoming the primary. Live and learn. [:I]

 

</TLDR>

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I must be really stubborn.  Just when I am ready to give up and install two hard drives, or install OS 9 and OSX on separate partitions, I try yet again.  I keep thinking I am missing an option or something.  I have tried installing OS 9 first and always choose the extended format option.  Then I try to install Panther.  It will not install.  Then I wipe the drive yet again and install Panther, then try to install OS 9.  It fails. When I install Panther I always make sure the "Load OS9 drivers" option is checked.  It always fails for me. I think I need to bang my head against the wall a little longer before i give up.  I have head that this was possible for a few years, and that is one reason I bought the B&W in the first place.
 
I think I can down load faster and easier under Panther.  Cory posted good information on how to link appletalk under OS 9 to my Mystic running 8.1  So, I want to down load files for the Mystic using OSX, and then drop them into a folder/shard drive that my Mystic can see. And I would like to do this without re booting the machine.
 
Will Panther (and Tiger) let me share a folder/drive with the Mystic running 8.1? That would work for me.
 
mraroid
 
 
 
 
 

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I don't think it's worth struggling to get OS 9 and OS X to share a partition. OS 9 will never need as much space as Mac OS X for anything besides raw media.

 

You can very easily partition HFS Extended (aka HFS+) to squeeze in another OS. I actually just did that on my PowerBook G4's boot drive to cram in a new 16 GB Tiger partition from what was previously a one partition, 256 GB Mac OS X Leopard Server drive. The partitioning was done by Mojave via FireWire Target Disk Mode. And 16 GB is more than plenty for classic Mac OS... 4 GB or 8 GB will be fine, too.

 

2 hours ago, mraroid said:
Will Panther (and Tiger) let me share a folder/drive with the Mystic running 8.1? That would work for me.

I'm a bit curious what you need Panther for since Tiger was essentially a refined Panther. That aside...

 

Yes, that's what AppleTalk is for. :) The System 7 Today walkthrough for getting that set up with System 7 and Leopard is very similar. "Mac OS 8.1" is very similar to System 7, the only parts that would be different would be dealing with some Tiger bugs around AppleTalk. I imagine Jaguar would be better for this, though.

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1 hour ago, nglevin said:

I'm a bit curious what you need Panther for since Tiger was essentially a refined Panther. That aside...

My stock B&W came with a CD drive.  I have a apple branded CD of Panther.  I have a apple branded DVD of Tiger.  I ordered a replacement CD/DVD drive for the B&W, but it has not arrived yet.

1 hour ago, nglevin said:

 

Yes, that's what AppleTalk is for. :) The System 7 Today walkthrough for getting that set up with System 7 and Leopard is very similar. "Mac OS 8.1" is very similar to System 7, the only parts that would be different would be dealing with some Tiger bugs around AppleTalk. I imagine Jaguar would be better for this, though.

Well, if I can set up AppleTalk between Panther/Tiger and the Mystic running 8.1, then that would solve all my problems. 

 

I ordered some option pins to change the Yikes! motherboard to 500Mhz.  As soon as that arrives, I can roll in the G4.

 

I ordered some stuff from:

 

http://www.headgapstore.com/

 

They advertise on the EveryMac.com web site.  But after more then a week, nothing.  They took my money, but never did send me a tracking number.  I sent them email 4 days ago, and no response. 

I hope they are not a scam.

 

mraroid

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