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judd sandage

Macintosh TV questions

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Good day everyone, I picked up a Macintosh TV probably 15 years ago, a friend bought a pallet of computer gear and it was on it, no keyboard or mouse, no ram stick in it nor a HDD, even the screws holding the case together are missing, at the time I wanted to mess with a Mac but didn't know what to do with it, so its been sitting in my garage since, well with the rise of "retro computing" I am looking to get back in to it (I also have a Vic-20, C64 and a TRS-80 Model 3).

 

My questions to you good folks is where can I get a copy of System 7.5 that I could use with it, either CD, CD-R or on floppy? Also suggestions as to trying to get an actual spinning rust drive workin on it or maybe get a SCSI2SD adapter for it. I also need the CD-ROM caddy for the drive, granted that is if it still works. and is there a list somewhere of what caps will need to be replaced? I have ordered a 4mb stick of ram and found one of the newer remotes that is compatible with it, but not the original. and I will keep my eyes on ebay for the keyboard and mouse.

 

Also any suggestions for the screws for the case?

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For the OS, try looking for the "master" copy CD on Macintosh Garden. I forget the exact name, but it has a copy of all system software you will need on it. The TV one SHOULD be on there... 

 

Get an SCSI2SD. 


The CD caddys can be found on ebay.

 

For screws, head down to a hardware store Id guess. Maybe theres a list of the sizes youll need?

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I have some screws, I also have a keyboard and mouse,  but your going to want to recap the motherboard and tuner board thats connected before you go buying too much stuff for it.  I have repaired a few, but it is the same vintage as color classics and LC's so the capacitors are going to be bad on the motherboard.

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Don't worry about screws etc or anything else until you can actually get it to boot.  The Mac TV motherboard is known for having particularly leaky caps, so once you get RAM hopefully you'll get signs of life.  

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Johnnya101, thank you for the suggestion, I was able to find a restore CD image that should cover the mac tv for system 7.1 with everything it had. 

 

Macdrone Thank you for the offer, I might take you up on that. but as Byrd said I need to make sure it can boot first, though I only saw I think 2 caps on the mobo when last I looked at it, but did not look at the analog board, which will have a ton of caps on it. I will be working on the Vic-20 and replacing its caps, while I am doing that I will check out the Mac and see what it needs and order those caps, unless someone has a list of what's needed.

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8 hours ago, judd sandage said:

I was able to find a restore CD image that should cover the mac tv for system 7.1 with everything it had. 

 

Can you send a link to download the restore for the Mac TV? I'm planning on restoring mine and I kinda need the cd.

 

Ps. on the tuner card there's a small board on it, it's probably old and very corroded. Mine was so corroded when I picked it up to put it back in the machine a cap or two fell. Luckily, the cards pretty cheap on eBay. You should probably buy sockets (I think that's what they are called) so if you need to replace it again, it's just a matter of ordering a new one and putting it in.

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Retro Rider, not a problem, this is the link http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-restoration-cd-system-software-series-september-1994 

 

for the smaller board on the tuner card... they don't look bad but I see what looks like oil or something covering everything below it... so I think all the caps leaked.

but it doesn't look like it leaked to the mainboard. and now that I am looking at the picture, it seems that just about everything on that mini board is corroded.

20181213_091314_HDR.thumb.jpg.ef7e2457e13c6f91b694a501c42f04ed.jpg

 

also on the back side of the analog board, there is several spots where it looks like someone repaired it before... including one spot that's a bit "how you doin" as EEVBlog would say.

20181213_093359.thumb.jpg.a3597b27b14558976c68190c55d56c87.jpg

 

and there is what would seem to be some kind of bodge on it, any ideas if that is stock or someones "fix"?

20181213_093714.thumb.jpg.45c4671f4646b42acfb34eff83b09d1c.jpg

 

Edited by judd sandage
clarification

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Quick note, the Mac TV has 4mb of RAM soldered to the logic board.  Definitely enough to get 7.1 fired up (but once you have it working, definitely get a hold of another 4mb stick to max it out at 8mb).  Also, leaky caps on the tuner card won't affect regular computer operations... or even the video/audio input from the RCA jacks.  You will want to repair it for sure, but those capacitors can wait.  The logic board capacitors are much more critical.  Additionally, if you can get it to turn on, but don't hear a startup chime, or it is extremely faint, that is a symptom of leaking capacitors.  Replace them early enough and you don't have to go trace hunting.

 

If you have a computer capable of mounting the original restore CD image, there should be a disk tools disk image in there.  Write that image to a floppy disk and you will have what you need to get to a desktop for some minimal testing of functionality... I'd expect the floppy disk drive will also need cleaning/lubricating as well after sitting in a garage for 15 years.  There is a wiki on this site that details the process very well.

 

However, even if the machine was brand new and we were in 1993, nothing will happen without a keyboard as you have to hit the power button on the keyboard to start the computer.  The main power switch on the back must be in the on position as well (obviously), but alone will not start the computer.

 

Once you have it up and running, i second @Johnnya101 in saying that a SCSI2SD is a great and modern replacement for the hard drive.

 

Best of luck :)  If you get it going it makes a great system if you keep your expectations tempered.  I like to think of it as a turbo-charged Macintosh SE FDHD/SuperDrive (adds 030 CPU, at slightly faster speed, color, and stereo sound on a monitor with VGA resolution).  So any software an SE will run, the TV will run great and in color for applications that support it.  The system is absolutely anemic if you try to compare it to the LC520/LC550 it sold alongside, so don't do that.

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On 12/13/2018 at 12:58 PM, Retro Rider said:

Thanks for the link! Also, can you please tell if the Mac TV supports CD-R? I'm about to get a caddy and haven't tried it before

It will definitely read some CD-Rs burned at a low speed (maybe high speed as well?), but the caddy loader drive found in it and the LC520 do not seem to acknowledge CD-RW discs.

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I have 4MB of RAM I just got from flea bay, and my intent with the mac is to have something that can play Spectre natively from the time. back in high school it was the only game I liked in the Mac lab. also once done I will keep it as a conversation piece, I like the black color of the case. and as for the keyboard and mouse, I figure once I get closer to the time I will replace the caps I will snag up a regular white keyboard and mouse until I find the black ones for cheaper then $200 each.

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I would strongly recommend doing those caps ASAP. The fluids they leak are corrosive, and will eat away at traces and nearby chips. If old caps are removed and board is properly cleaned early enough then it is a non-issue. However, if enough time has passed and the corrosion has messed things up (or the board isn’t properly cleaned during the cap replacement) you will have to run patch wires and/or deal with trying to replace individual chips on the logic board.

 

I reccomend getting some quality tantalum capacitors to replace the original electrolytic capacitors.

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I am clearing off the workbench I will be doing my repairs on this week, I also need to figure out what caps are on the analog board and get them, but within the next couple of weeks is when I am doing the work.

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I hope someone on this thread can help me with my Macintosh TV. I just joined to make this post after stumbling across this thread. 

I have a Macintosh TV that would not power up for years. No activity at all with the power button. Before it stopped working completely I booted off a floppy to use it as a TV as the internal hard drive was intermittent. For full capability I could boot off an external hard drive. Yesterday after seeing an ad on ebay for a recapped logic board I did a little research and there was a suggestion to replace the PRAM battery. I tried this and to my surprise the Mac booted up off the external drive and seemed to be fully functional.

I shut down the Mac and pulled the internal drive to inspect and clean it. After inserting it back in , the machine powered up but gave me the disk with ? mark on the screen. It would spit out the floppy as well. I tried depowering and repowering the external drive but no joy. I shut down the Mac and tried to power back up but to my dismay it went completely dead again. When I flip the power switch I hear the hum/buzz (CRT high power?). But no further action with the power key. I also tried the remote but nothing. I cleaned the logic board, there is not much evidence of capacitor leakage. I am wondering if this is more likely a power supply issue.

So I’m not sure what to try next. Any suggestions?

Thanks for any ideas.

 

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Thanks , is there an easy way to move this post?

 

I recapped and cleaned the logic board but it still wont power on. Is there a way to test the power outputs on the analog board to check its functionality?

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I made another pass at cleaning the logic board, reflowed solder on the recaps and removed the CUDA reset switch(seem flaky so maybe stuck in reset). It now starts up reliably.

 

I am interested in the scsi2sd to replace my hard drive. https://store.inertialcomputing.com/SCSI2SD-V5-1-p/scsi2sd-v5.1.htm  I am wondering if  this will plug right up to the hard drive connector or will I need adapter cables? It looks like the 50 pin connector is the same but the molex is different. Does it even need molex power?

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Oh, also as far as the tuner card, I don't know what you would use it for(since there are no more analog antenna signals) except maybe as a channel 3 or 4 coaxial cable input for a device that doesn't have an RCA video output. 

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I’m glad you were able to get your Mac TV powering up! :)

 

SCSI2SD will definitely work in there and should run just fine off of the SCSI bus power, no molex needed. At least that has been my experience. You may want to buy the mounting bracket adapter from there as well so you can secure it to the hard drive sled.

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Ok, I talked to 68krazy and got the cap list for the analog board for his LC550 which should be the same board, I will order the caps and see if it works, though I will need a keyboard for the power button, and a mouse would be nice. Macdrone I would like to take you up on your offer for the keyboard and mouse, and the screws, let me know what you would it would take to do so please.

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any ideas as to what kind of drive sled is needed for the HDD? As mine was removed before I got it, there is no sled or drive caddy I can see, I found an adapter for the interface though I am not sure if it will work. Also how does one pop the front panel off to get to the floppy and CD-ROM drives as I will need to clean and lube the floppy for sure.

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8 minutes ago, judd sandage said:

any ideas as to what kind of drive sled is needed for the HDD?

Any of the sleds from another TV or LC5xx should work fine. Maybe others as well.

 

9 minutes ago, judd sandage said:

Also how does one pop the front panel off to get to the floppy and CD-ROM drives

Incredibly carefully. If you bring the machine to the very edge of a table and look up from underneath, you should be able to see how the latch is. Gently manipulate it until you are able to swing the lower edge of the front part towards you and then it should come away. Again, this part is identical to the LC5xx machines, so any videos or instruction you find for them will be applicable here. Be very careful with the plastics, they are insanely brittle.

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Well, the drive sled I got is a little to long, I will need to trim the removal tab a bit to get the back panel to fit. I did replace the caps on the mobo and it did boot to the ?, so I burned the recovery CD I linked to above and was able to after 7 or so hours of messing with it get system 7.1 installed then upgraded to 7.6 and then finally 7.6.1 however after doing all that I decided to install the drivers for the Zip Plus drive I bought, then shut the thing down to hook up the drive to the SCSI port on the back, turend it back on and got a blank screen with no cursor or logo, so I gave it another restart and same, disconnected the Zip drive and now it wont turn on. I am thinking the next thing is to replace the caps on the analog board but is there any other suggestions?

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