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Demand for Performa 630CD?

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I'm curious what the other forumgoers think the demand for these computers is. It's obviously not huge, these middle model Performas were kinda lackluster compared to similar year PowerPCs or even Quadras, but also not anywhere near early enough to be historical. On the other hand, these computers hit an interesting balance of usability for value, where they're solid enough performers to run pretty much any 68k software at a good clip, color at a reasonable resolution is possible, there's a Comm Slot for reasonably priced modern connectivity...They're some of the oldest computers that don't take much effort to bring up to somewhat modern standards. 

 

I personally don't much like this model because it's freaking bulky and I can't justify the desk space to mess around with it. (I don't have a very big desk, I can only just barely fit a keyboard in front of it.) I think I'd be happier with a compact Mac, even if it is older and slower, because then it wouldn't take up so much room, and I could justify using it more. 

 

I have a very nice working model with Apple monitor and a box each of software, manuals, and accessories. With all that I suspect I could recoup costs ($70 on craigslist) and maybe get an SE + SCSI2SD with the proceeds if I listed it well. 

 

Apologies for thinking out loud, I wanted to see what others in the hobby think. 

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You pretty much hit the nail on the head.  While it's not a bad performer for what it is, there isn't really the desire for the machine unless there's nostalgia from using it in school attached to it.  If you're doing a local sale and you don't have to worry about shipping I could see you getting ~$50 for it but once you have shipping to consider the market shrinks considerably.  There aren't a whole lot of folks out there that want to pay to ship a Performa with a monitor, especially since those monitors have a nasty habit of going to pieces in shipping no matter how well they are packed.

 

Same as with the beige pre-G3 PPC desktops.  You're just not going to find many folks who are lusting after the 7000 series desktops as compared to the 86/9600 towers.

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The fun in those machines is in finding things like the MPEG Media Card that plugs into the Video input card's DAV connector, PC compatibility cards and the like. VCD and PhotoCD are fun to mess with.

 

They don't need to take up desk space as the Q630 and descendants were first Macs to ship with VGA and SVGA output along with IDE for easy, inexpensive SD conversion. Get a standard KVM switch and put it under your desk so you only need the AppleDesign KBD with its long straight cord and a mouse to play around with if using your daily driver display on the switch.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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The way I see it, if you wan't a System 7 68k Mac to actually use and it doesn't matter how rare or special it is, the 630 should be near the top of the list of considerations.

 

They are cheaper than pretty much all other models (perhaps not as cheap as the LCs but most of those were compromised in one way or another) and the IDE hard disk means that newer HDs can be slotted in. A 630 I recently got came with it's original HD still working, but its bloody noisy and sounds like it doesn't have much time left. I've been using a much bigger drive from a dead B&W G3 in it and its silent in comparison.

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I found a Performa 640CD a few years back for pretty cheap.  I personally feel the 6xx models are great.  I like that they are inexpensive and that they have IDE so it is easy to replace the HD.  Those 4.5 volt Rayovac batteries suck though.  Thankfully a 3x AAA holder and 3x AAA batteries solve that issue.

 

 

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Yep, it's one of the handiest case designs right up to the drawbridges, maybe easier to upgrade at that and no kickstand to break off. ::)

 

I've got a 72 pin SIMM slot doubler and one that has four slots, but the profile is too high on that one. Pet project for the Q630 (when I find it and the time some day) is to adapt it to use a pair of SIMMs in the single slot Quadra. With that twin SIMM riser board its RAM ceiling should match the two SIMM DOS compatible LCs. I'm guessing those have three banks of memory: two sticks and four on the floor? Shades of the Evil RAS Line Hack!

 

Keep an eye out for the expansion goodies for this series. If you spot a good deal, grab it! Even if one of the CPUs never falls in your lap, re-selling the goodies later on would probably be a worthwhile endeavor.

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One of my favorites.  Maybe because it was also my first 68k?  The DOS compatible ones are super cool, that's what I have.

 

Mine is also overclocked to 40MHz and has a full '040 chip.  HUGE improvement over 33MHz.

 

I've had it maxed out at 52MB memory for years but now have come across some 64MB SIMMs that I need to try in it.

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8 hours ago, Brett B. said:

I've had it maxed out at 52MB memory for years but now have come across some 64MB SIMMs that I need to try in it.

Nice, definitely give that a try. I've always been curious about that board and max RAM spec. Just found this handy on LEM:

 

mac-lc-630-dos-memory.png?w=632

 

Is there a utility that can report the memory bank setup of a Mac? That 32MB/16MB/4MB spec seems awfully contrived to me.

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I hear it's possible - I know for sure that the second slot for sure does not support anything larger than 16MB, I tried it.  But just one 64MB stick would give me a theoretical max of 84MB.  And maybe the DOS card would see a full 64MB stick too but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

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Do you recall if it was single Banked or Double Banked SIMMs used?The latter would be what gives me the notion that memory might be organized a bit differently on the DOS Compatible boards. Mobo memory might be addressed as half of a double banked SIMM with the other being the 16MB limited SIMM slot with addressing limited to 16MB. Makes me wonder if that addressing setup might have been passed along to the 32MB slot?IIRC most 72pin SIMM Macs are limited to using Single Banked SIMMs. Testing a double banked 64MB SIMM in the "32MB Slot"might be worthwhile. CAS and RAS wpu;d be set up identically on the "16MB Slot" and MoBo RAM with one address bit missing on the the slot for the Mobo half of the assemblage or the opposite?

 

Dunno, if any of these caffeine deprivation induced fantasies prove to be correct, it would most likely lead to removal of the mobo ICs and jumpering that address line to the 16MB SIMM slot which would net a 12MB increase. This info the 840AV's four slot setup might be derived from the 605 on which the 630 board is alleged to have been based by LEM: Total loadout of a modified DOS board would likely remain the 840AV's 128MB. Unless of course the board was designed to support later PPC versions?

 

RAM: 4 MB on motherboard, expandable to 132 MB using a single 80ns 72-pin SIMM; can use 1 MB, 2 MB, 4 MB, 8 MB, 16 MB, 32 MB, 64 MB or 128 MB SIMM (Apple’s memory guide indicates double sided SIMMs can be used, but only with 2, 4, and 32 MB capacity), be sure to specify what computer 64 MB and 128 MB SIMMs will be used in — some designs are not compatible. (The 605/475 works only with single-banked 64 MB SIMMs, but it does not work with double-banked 64 MB RAM SIMMs.

 

I'm confused, but I like it that way! :blink: That being said, the 630 series would indeed be in demand for the tinkerers among us, most especially the DOS variant.

 

edit: 640 limitation to 64MB jibes with the 6200 setup. Both were introduced the same year and in that case LEM's allegations could be partially true. Methinks the 640 was developed as the low end version of the 6200 so one is based on the other with both being extrapolations from the archetypal 630. Still confused. [:D]

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini
the usual

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Just to basically mirror what's been said, I think the 630-640 as a series are important machines to consider for anyone wanting a 68k Mac, because they're often inexpensive and the things that made them ho-hum compared to stablemates such as the 610 and 650 can make them a little easier to work with today. The IDE storage in particular, and the wide availability of inexpensive LC-PDS Ethernet adapters, for example. The video subsytem supports fewer resolutions than some of the higher end systems, but in most of the environments you'd expect to see 630s (or 605/475 or 610, for that matter) high resolution displays (really, anything above 640x480) weren't common until later on in the '90s.

 

They're not my favorites, but for better or worse, I'm not looking, I got lucky and most of my computers were acquired a decade or more ago when much "nicer" machines were a lot cheaper, but in practice, if you're going to set up a system 7 machine for most mac-appropriate tasks, almost any machine will be "fine."

 

As far as space concerns go: you should be able to run a 630 on its side, if you needed to, say, put on big rubber feet and prop it up behind an LCD display. However, because most of Apple's own CD-ROM drives did not have clips to hold a disc in place, you would lose use of the CD drive.

 

If you wanted to sell yours, it would make a great starter kit for someone who wants to play mid-late 68k era games or get going on some totally sweet early-mid '90s system 7 productivity.

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Does anyone know much about the performance benefits of the full 040 over the LC counterpart? I think I remember reading somewhere that the FPU's presence didn't really effect the majority of things that these machines are used for these days.

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On 9/19/2018 at 3:59 PM, Cory5412 said:

As far as space concerns go: you should be able to run a 630 on its side, if you needed to, say, put on big rubber feet and prop it up behind an LCD display. However, because most of Apple's own CD-ROM drives did not have clips to hold a disc in place, you would lose use of the CD drive.

 

If you wanted to sell yours, it would make a great starter kit for someone who wants to play mid-late 68k era games or get going on some totally sweet early-mid '90s system 7 productivity.

This is exactly why I am making a Quadra 630 into a self-contained custom machine. Not sure about space savings (if I had placed the power supply on it's side, I could have made it a lot slimmer), but I did remove the HD and CD-ROM drive and replaced it with a SCSI2SD. Planning on having it upright, mounted behind a cheap LCD I got at Goodwill. It will be a really nice non-internet-connected game machine for my young girls. They already have had a blast with the partially assembled machine using Kaboom! to record themselves :).

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On 9/19/2018 at 11:11 AM, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Do you recall if it was single Banked or Double Banked SIMMs used?

I know for sure I have a double sided 32MB SIMM and a single sided 16MB SIMM on the logic board and an identical 32MB double sided SIMM on the DOS card.  The 64MB SIMMs I have are double sided.

 

On 9/21/2018 at 2:33 AM, Innes said:

Does anyone know much about the performance benefits of the full 040 over the LC counterpart? I think I remember reading somewhere that the FPU's presence didn't really effect the majority of things that these machines are used for these days.

In reality, not much difference, although I swear it feels faster while running everyday tasks.  Probably mostly in my head.  Back in the early days of 68k collecting it was more or less just bragging rights to have full '040s in our Low Cost machines.

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A RAM module having chips on one side or two sides does not really tell you anything definitive.   The important question is whether a SIMM  is single banked or double banked.  Often, chips on one side corresponds with single banked, etc., but not always.

 

IIRC, it has been well established that the x[x]63n supports a double banked SIMM in one socket and a single banked SIMM in the other socket, for boards with two SIMM sockets.  For boards with a single SIMM socket, a double banked SIMM is supported.

 

The remaining question is what size of bank does the family support?    I seem to remember that folks have used 128MB SIMMs in them, indicating that a 64MB bank size is supported.  Hardware-wise, 64MB/bank support requires support for 12 X 12 bit addressing in the SIMM slot.  The 72 pin SIMM spec. supports 12 address lines, but not all machines that use 72 pins SIMMs support all 12 lines nor all possible addressing modes.

 

Double banked 32 MB SIMMs, made of two 16MB banks, e.g., require 11 X 11 addressing, and so will be the maximum if the machine only connected 11 address pins in each SIMM slot.

 

Anyway, if 12 X 12 (ROW v. COL.) addressing is supported, then 64 MB banks are supported, and the single SIMM slot x[x]63n machines support 128 + 4MB = 132 MB RAM and the two slot machines support 128 + 64 + 4 MB = 196MB RAM.

 

Double banked 64MB SIMMs are an odd duck because they require 11 X 12 or 12 X 11 addressing and many machines don't support that mode.

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3 hours ago, trag said:

IIRC, it has been well established that the x[x]63n supports a double banked SIMM in one socket and a single banked SIMM in the other socket, for boards with two SIMM sockets.  For boards with a single SIMM socket, a double banked SIMM is supported.

 

That's what has me thinking that the MoBo RAM is one bank, the second SIMM the other hlf of that pair and the main SIMMs double banks as rounding out a four bank setup.

 

A riff on the Quadra 605 "Evil RAS Line Hack" would be removing the MoBo ICs of a DOS Compatible 6XX and setting the required lines on a course to the "second SIMM" slot adding support for a double banked memory upgrade? That's a far more simple version of my (insanely complicated) plan for Bank A of the IIsi. The DOS compatibles should be a walk in the park by comparison. The Quadra 630 rigged to support a pair of double banked SIMMs on a 72-pin SIMM doubler would be the more far fetched, but much happier outcome for my single SIMM slot Quadra 630.

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There were sort of two different versions of these machines: the 63x and 64x. The primary difference is that the 64x has two RAM slots where the 63x has just the one; they're mostly identical otherwise. Some of the 63x machines may have had the double RAM slot board, but I can't tell you off hand which they were (thanks, confusing model numbers!).

 

They weren't super great machines, but the game Marathon (which is freely downloadable now, btw) has an option to take advantage of the Valkyrie video controller used in these boards. I think that was the only software that ever really did so, aside from maybe an Apple video program of some sort.

 

For me the model to get would be the 640 DOS Compatible. They're very interesting in that unlike the other DOS Compatible Macs that put the DOS card in a PDS/NuBus/PCI slot, the 640's DOS card physically displaced the 68040 and plugged directly into the processor socket on the logic board, with the '040 being relocated to a special socket on the DOS card. It also used an LC PDS card to provide the game port (and some other low-level functions I'm sure).

 

Another interesting tidbit is that the Pioneer MPC-LX100, which was the only officially licensed 68k clone, used the double RAM slot version of the 63x/64x board. It also used a full 68040 with a copper slab glued onto the processor to aid in heat dissipation. Very cool machine.

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Ok i have the slightly later 6200CD which looks the same but is slightly quicker. I agree its not a Great mac at all but because of that like the 630 they’re cheap, very cheap. I brought mine solely for getting my se/30 up and running, its that bit newer, can get online to download from macintosh garden, then i just use a Zip drive to transfer between machines for what i needed from it, its been a god send and i like the looks too.

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I have a 640cd dos compatable i believe it used to be in a pre-school or kindergarden as it has a bunch of old educational dos games on it. The hd might need to be replaced tough because it rarely boots up and when i boot from cd it says the hd needs to be initalized. It probaly just needs a re-install but i would hate to get rid of all the old games so im just going to try my luck and hopefully the hd will decide to boot once more so i can hopefully copy the games on cd. 

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The nice thing about the 630/640 is that it has IDE.  So you can replace the HD with an IDE to SD or CF card.  If you like spinning drives, like I do, it is not too hard to get older IDE drives.

On that note, I finally found an original 640CD restore CD.  I know you can download one now from various sources but I like to have the original software to a system if I can.  

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