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MacToTheFuture SE/30 10/100 Ethernet card

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On 9/25/2018 at 10:45 AM, kreats said:

Something funny about mac projects where nothing ever ends up being released, even when they are completed. Gamba round 2 I guess.

 

BMOW projects and SCSI2SD excepted


And the Custom ROM SIMM. BMoW is in charge of that now (known as the ROMinator II or some such), but it was Dougg3 who developed and released it initially.

 

c

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On 9/30/2018 at 4:39 AM, CC_333 said:


And the Custom ROM SIMM. BMoW is in charge of that now (known as the ROMinator II or some such), but it was Dougg3 who developed and released it initially.

 

c

Yep I bought some of those from him! 

 

There are a few completed projects just crying out for release - and it's getting to the point where classic macs will die out as a hobby soon without some momentum.

 

  • The twinspark repro board
  • The greyscale board for the se/30
  • IIfx ram sims
Edited by kreats

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First, it's not a repro of the TwinSpark board, it's a clone of the DiiMO board in basic form, as is the TwinSpark. As Bolle and Joe have said, everything that's needed for followup is open source in the thread. Third, the open source info for a IIsi PowerCache adapter is in there too. It's from that angle that we worked out SE/30 adaptations, not from the TwinSpark.

 

Real life has a habit of getting in the way, hopefully this very cool project thread will see some progress soon.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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Someone has the ability to push out PCBs and they don't do it - we've seen actual boards being distributed to a select few.. all that is required is to repeat the process.

 

And if it's too hard/time consuming, give a license to someone else! And if they don't want to even do that - release the PCB files and give instructions on how to order them.

 

I just don't get why people sit on these things. They may as well have never been done if nobody can actually get at them. And then we are back to $200 boards from Japan.

 

Ask yourself - if it is so straightforward could you make a board using the info from that thread?

 

PS: I already have a Twinspark, so this isn't self interest

Edited by kreats

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27 minutes ago, kreats said:

I just don't get why people sit on these things. They may as well have never been done if nobody can actually get at them. And then we are back to $200 boards from Japan.

Nope, I'm not competent to do it, I kept fumbling through the research and banging away at the project in the hacks forum for years just for the heck of it, like my other crazy projects. Joe lucked into a IIsi adapter that put him on the PAL formula track and enlisted lots of help from a formula reverse engineering guru offsite. Bolle followed up on that track with Joe. He wound up doing the PCB designs and making the investment to do run of boards, bought parts and assembled adapters of two types for those who'd expressed interest in buying them to us in the thread during the process. He did that for beer money, not any real kind of profit motive.

 

Anyone interested in licensing Bolle's PCB designs for production should get in touch with him in PM. I don't expect much interest in doing that. As I'd said all along, the parts cost of an adapter will NEVER be inexpensive, cheap adapters are a pipe dream. There's probably not a big enough market or profit margin to be had for anyone like bigmessowires, GGlabs or the like to even bother competing with Artmix.

 

People griping about the results of that project need to form a consortium and get 'er done. While you're at it, license and do a run of Bolle's unfinished IIsi Adapter board. I'd buy one of those, I can't afford to put the money up for a run and I can't solder for schniznit anyway.

 

I'd start a thread in hacks, asking if anyone has access to wave soldering equipment to do professional assembly as the first step, but few pay attention to my byline. ::)

 

I'm tickled pink that we accomplished what gamba & co. gave up on back in the day. [:D]

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There are practically 0 expensive parts other than the connectors on the adaptors. The PCB itself can be ordered for a couple of dollars each. This would be an extremely cheap and profitable board to sell - but nobody is doing it. 

 

After a year or so of no movement, I think it's time to make intentions clear.  If the project is abandoned it would be nice to know. I'm happy to buy a few (at least 3), but they have to be made available.

 

As it is, I don't see why would anyone invest the time designing a board when people will say it was stolen from community research, or with the threat of the original design undercutting them.

 

Edited by kreats

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Mods, can we please move this developing OT discussion out of jamesmilne's project thread here and into a board feasibility or general product development study topic in hacks? NOT under my byline. :-/

 

Dunno what board costs are, but $2 for even a simple double sided board in the dimensions of Artmix' DiiMO clone's form factor ain't even close..

 

Lets break it down in business terms, I've done this stuff IRL in the era of the SE/30.

 

Figuring zero cost for development:

 

Price out four layer boards in the dimensions required for your project.

Try to get low volume total parts costs under $30, not likely. EuroDin connectors in that size is not inexpensive these days.

Estimate time to:

- do pricing and place orders

- open packages and set components up for board stuffing

- board stuffing

- time spent & cost of wave soldering offsite or heaven forbid, hand soldered process in house

- burning/testing PALs

- installation of each assembled board for burn in testing

- removal for machine

- cost of packing materials (after costing/ordering time)

- packaging

- order taking labeling time

- shipping cost and getting boxes to carrier (misc. other shipping an handling costs)

 

Assuming there is no equipment to buy and amortize as a cost of production:

- multiply time estimated by minimum wage (dunno about you or the rest of the gang, but I ain't working for minimum wage)

 

Profit margin would be whatever you can charge more than the totals above, but enough less than $200 to generate sales to move all of what you'll need to inventory.

 

Take two aspirin and get back to me in the morning. [;)]

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I really disagree. There are many many examples of far more complicated boards for the hobbyist market being sold right now, presumably at a good profit.  Check some of EEVblog's videos.. he got 4 layer boards the size of a motherboard made for $20 each - delivered in 5 days.  Getting the board also assembled for cheap isn't out of the question.

 

Anyway, if the PCBs are released we will see.. if they aren't it's just another nail in the macintosh coffin. I really don't know why you are fighting me on this.

 

and the discussion is relevant to this thread also, cause a manifestation of the same problem - no updates in 4 months? It's dead, Jim

Edited by kreats

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I'd be interested helping any developers bring their product to market if they have completed development.  If they do not wish to pursue it themselves, I'd be keen on purchasing rights as well.  I think we need to keep the vintage Mac community alive.

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Excellent news, I'd be very happy to see someone take the lead on this.

 

7 hours ago, kreats said:

I really disagree. There are many many examples of far more complicated boards for the hobbyist market being sold right now, presumably at a good profit.  Check some of EEVblog's videos.. he got 4 layer boards the size of a motherboard made for $20 each - delivered in 5 days.  Getting the board also assembled for cheap isn't out of the question.

I'm not fighting you, just pointing out that you were underestimating costs, problems and processes by a very large margin. Boards for cheap from China are one thing, that's an all but, if not completely automated process. "Getting the board also assembled for cheap" in small quantity production gives me nightmares of rampant child labor abuse.

 

I'd appreciate a link to that video, I'm happy to learn how the process changed in the last couple of years, so much has changed so quickly in the Raspberry Pi revolution. Glad to see such cost savings spread to larger, more complex boards.

 

Quote

and the discussion is relevant to this thread also, cause a manifestation of the same problem - no updates in 4 months? It's dead, Jim

That's my point, it's relevant to, but OT in this thread. A general discussion in hacks on how to jumpstart projects would be of more use.

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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Here's the link to the EEVBlog video about cheap PCBs

JLCPCB Prototype Inspection

I'm really not underestimating costs.. apart from the connectors, this is about as cheap a board as you could ever possibly hope to make.

 

I have also ordered smaller boards on oshpark for literally a couple of dollars delivered.

 

child abuse.. come on now that's just being silly. No more so than with everything else you own.. it's mostly automated anyway.

Edited by kreats

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WOW! Gotta get onto the bandwagon here. Thanks, that's an incredible reduction in prices just in the last couple of years. Getting a solder mask laser cut to fit in between and around the components of a 2300c board for my 200MHz CPU ratchets that hack up several notches on the feasibility scale.

 

JLPCB solder paste stencil order and use - YouTube

 

Again, this would make a great topic for discussion in its own thread.

 

edit: Dunno if large thruhole connector stuffing remains automated for small runs? Child labor abuse is a real thing in China, hopefully not in the tech industry, but clothing industry in remote areas still appears to be a problem area and there is an "Educational Labor" workaround to consider. Just saying, be careful about using primary contractors and their sub-contractor's labor and safety practices. Don't want to take this into the political realm.

 

Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini

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Perhaps not relevant to this discussion, but it would be cool to see a new 10/100 Nubus card enter production. The Asante card is rare and fairly expensive. Since Nubus is standardized and used on tons of Macs it may be worth the effort?

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