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JDW

Modern PSU for the SE/30

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@ants sounds good. I may try the same. I have (I think) the exact same situation as you - my stock Sony PSU works fine with my SE/30 running just Ethernet or just Daystar - but as soon as I try running both I get a voltage drop (4.8v roughly ... by the way my 12v disk rail is running 12.6) and random freezes or failure to boot. 

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11 hours ago, Crutch said:

as soon as I try running both I get a voltage drop

Thanks for sharing this, it's good to know I'm not the only one with this issue!

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Taking a look at the picoPSU again, I don’t know much about power supplies but the manual http://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-PICOPSU-160-XT/PWR-PICOPSU-160-XT-manual.pdf lists the “peak load” on the -12V rail as 0.1A. However Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware, Second Edition p. 259 lists the peak load on the -12V rail as 0.5A. This seems like an important shortcoming - or am I missing something?

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Stock SE/30 PSU Specs:

 

+5v = 6.0A

+12Vsweep = 1.25A

+12Vdisk = 2.1A

-12V = 0.5A

 

Any replacement PSU should have the same or larger current supply capability.  Err on the side of LARGER.

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Thanks I thought so. Guide to the Macintosh Family Hardware, Second Edition p. 259 has those same numbers, but adds a footnote that peak load on the 12V disk rail may actually reach 4.0A for up to 15 seconds. 

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1 hour ago, Crutch said:

...peak load on the 12V disk rail may actually reach 4.0A for up to 15 seconds. 

All the more reason to go with the SEASONIC SSP-250SUB...


Image%202018-08-10%20at%201.01.46%20PM.p

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I wanted to thank all of you on this thread for the really useful discussion, especially @superjer2000 for the awesome step-by-step detail and photos!

 

My problem was a creaky PSU that would power the unadorned SE/30 (albeit with lower-than-rated voltages), but intermittently crash as soon as I added any upgraded kit.  Thanks to your advice I picked up the Seasonic SSP-250SUB and installed it in my legacy Apple PSU chassis.  The steps I followed were very much in line with @superjer2000's instructions, but a few details here in case useful for anyone else trying this:

 

1.  Open and gut the Apple PSU.  Pound down the standoff sort of sticking up in the middle.  Leave the bottom plastic sheet in place.

2.  Open the Seasonic PSU.  I had to chip away a few dabs of epoxy (?) to disconnect the clips, but then it just unscrews neatly from the base.  It's a nice modular PSU with no disassembly required.  The Seasonic plug assembly is held in place with three little tabs; it can be pushed right out of the chassis if you manage to squeeze all the tabs at the same time.  I did this, removed the Apple plug assembly in the same way, and inserted the Seasonic plug into the Apple chassis.  (I left the original Apple switch in place.)

3.  Drill appropriately-spaced holes for motherboard standoffs in the Apple chassis and screw the Seasonic PSU guts into place.  I left the plastic sheeting the came with the Seasonic PSU in place, but trimmed down the sides down for airflow.

4.  The tricky bit, for me, was making the wire harness to connect the Seasonic PSU to the SE/30 analog board.  I had trouble using the "staple trick" to get the pins out of the Seasonic harness and also had bad luck with a cheap pin extraction tool I found online.  Eventually I ponied up the $20 for this one https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GOIY1NE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and it's amazing how much easier it made things.  I bought a 10-pin Molex power connector and just followed the diagram linked earlier in this tread to make my harness, tidying things up with cable ties.  I also poked in an extra GND wire and a green wire into the PS-ON pin on the Seasonic, which I threaded back under the PSU board to the original Apple switch.

5.  I spliced the PS-ON and extra GND wire to the original wires on one side of the Apple switch, so that turning the switch on shorts PS-ON to GND, enabling soft power on the Seasonic PSU.  I insulated the splices with heat shrink.  Then I snipped the short green grounding wire off of the discarded Apple plug and soldered it to the grounding ring on the Seasonic plug, screwing the other end back onto the Apple PSU grounding ring nearby.

 

And that's it!  Then I put everything back together and tested it with my meter before putting it back inside my Mac.  Voltages looked perfect, much stronger than my old PSU which struggled to pull 4.75V on the +5 rail.

 

One note - I am trying this without the PSU fan for now.  Seasonic specs say the fan doesn't come on below 30% utilization anyway, which I'm pretty sure will always be the case.  I also have an upgraded Nanoxia Deep Silence fan in my SE/30 which is rated at higher CFM than the original fan, and am not running any spinning HD (just SCSI2SD).  So far the PSU never seems to get more than a little warm.

 

Close-up showing the wire harness plugged into the Seasonic PSU (which is screwed into the Apple PSU chassis)--the yellow and black wires were slightly too long so just loop around slightly off the bottom edge.

 

IMG_0135.thumb.jpg.e7cea45d474724b668b98c1c986fbe90.jpg

 

Close-up of the PS-ON and GND wires going to one side of the original Apple switch (spliced + heat shrink):

 

IMG_0134.thumb.jpg.f01b7ef0d48d02cae3d718ebdc096969.jpg

 

Finished product, visible in this shot is the Seasonic plug assembly with blue capacitors (at right) and small green grounding wire soldered to the grounding tab on the Seasonic plug assembly and screwed into the chassis

 

IMG_0162.thumb.jpg.cfd503849023e8d9f681d1a211222abe.jpg

 

All closed up--looks just like an OEM part from the outside.

 

IMG_0165.thumb.jpg.e13b463197762f1a097f8c278180a9dc.jpg

 

Back home inside my SE/30 and running better than ever!

 

IMG_0179.thumb.jpg.d3fabe280045f3a4f573e998a8cdcedd.jpg

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Crutch, is this your replacement fan?

 

http://nanoxia-world.com/en/products/fans/deep-silence/240/deep-silence-60-mm-2000-u/min

 

I use a SILENX in one of my SE/30's and am curious how loud your fan is in comparison to the stock ELINA fan (which is quite loud but moves a lot of air).

 

It's taken me a lot longer than I though to finish my video on the SEASONIC upgrade.  Things keep coming up delaying the video, and then I decided to recap my analog board and run voltage measurements with that.  But the video is now coming to a close, so I intend to upload it this week and post the link here.

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@JDW yes that's the one.  It's vastly quieter than the stock fan.  My Nanoxia fan is rated 12.1 dB with 15.8 CFM at 2000 RPM.  Per spec the Silenx IXP-34-16 60mm fan moves more air but is louder at 16 dB; the Silenx IXP-34-12 moves less air (14 CFM) and is about the same loudness (12 dB).  Is this the one you have?  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835191005

 

 

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Yes, the Silenx IXP-34-16 is the fan I currently use:

 

 I talked a lot about in the past, but sadly many of those posts were deleted when the forum’s hard drives crashed. 

 

Specs are one thing, but putting your hand close to the fan as air moves through it is yet another.  Based on the airflow detected by my hand, it feels that the stock Elina fan moves more air than my Silenx.   I would therefore encourage you to do some before/after tests to see which one you physically “feel“ moves more air. 

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Thanks everyone for your collective knowledge on this project. Here is my attempt:

 

PSX_20190207_225448.thumb.jpg.2962c7371b286d38ecf0c6e68348e67f.jpgPSX_20190207_225436.thumb.jpg.1571308e3e2d1c600f60f0a769b63059.jpg

 

Voltages all look perfect, but tomorrow I'll try the smoke test in my Mac!

 

I soldered directly onto the outer pins of the power socket on the Seasonic to prevent opening it up - and then I just glued the Seasonic in place with some epoxy glue... lazy!

 

If anyone has reason to believe that I'll burn my house down, please let me know!

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Kind of off topic. Anyone here that has rebuilt a PSU that would be willing to rebuild one for me? In the US?

 

There would definitely be a demand for a service like this. Many PSUs are starting to fail at this point of time.

Edited by Johnnya101

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11 hours ago, Johnnya101 said:

Kind of off topic. Anyone here that has rebuilt a PSU that would be willing to rebuild one for me? In the US?

 

There would definitely be a demand for a service like this. Many PSUs are starting to fail at this point of time.

I wanted to wait a day after seeing your post to see if anyone would step up to the plate.  Since no one has, I will say a few words.  You did say "in the US" which is why I cannot do the job for you (it really would be cost prohibitive in light of 2-way international shipping), seeing I am in Japan.  But actually I can help YOU do the job to either recap your SONY PSU (hopefully you have a SONY not Astec) or install the SEASONIC in your PSU chassis.  I have YouTube videos on both which are detailed enough for anyone to follow, even people without a lot of soldering experience.  Gaining experience with the PSU is a good idea because it can help you debug and possibly fix other issues which may crop up in the future.  I'm working on an Analog Board (for SE and SE/30) recap video right now.  I do this in my free time (and I make no money on YouTube either), so it may still be another few weeks before I can finish it.  Best wishes to you, Johnny!

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Yeah, mentioned US specifically because I know a few members in this thread are outside of the US, and that would make shipping problematic.

 

I've got a Sony. I'm starting to get horizontal lines moving downward on the display. Faint, but noticeable. It didn't happen with my recapped PSU (which bit the dust for an unrelated reason a month ago). It's probably the filter caps starting to go showing the mains frequency. I'm thinking of just swapping in a new PSU rather than deal with the old and failing ones (30 year old power supplies... ). I'm kind of scared to mess with something as big as a power supply for right now. Keyboard repair I can do, maybe some minor analog board work, but PSUs are way too much to attempt.

 

Thanks for your offer though!

 

But, if anyone here in the US would be willing to rebuild my PSU (or replace I guess could be said), I'm willing to pay!

 

Edit

 

Should also ask the expert, @JDW , what would you recommend for an SE/30 with an Ethernet card that would have light use every week? New PSU or recap? My last one had a bad transistor, and I'd hate to have that happen again...

Edited by Johnnya101

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@JDW your YouTube video really helped me and was very entertaining. However, as a novice solderer myself, I was sweating bullets when soldering the high-voltage wiring to the PSU. When you also consider the wiring for the rocker switch, there's a lot of wires to deal with in close proximity - all enclosed in a metal box!

 

In Australia we're on a 240v power supply and I was nervous the first time I powered on my assembled PSU. We have safety switches in our home, but not everyone does.

 

I think the point I'm trying to make is that more so than other Mac hardware projects, this one is probably the most dangerous and carries a risk of electrocution. This project is not for everyone.

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35 minutes ago, Johnnya101 said:

I've got a Sony. I'm starting to get horizontal lines moving downward on the display. Faint, but noticeable. It didn't happen with my recapped PSU (which bit the dust for an unrelated reason a month ago). It's probably the filter caps starting to go showing the mains frequency. I'm thinking of just swapping in a new PSU rather than deal with the old and failing ones (30 year old power supplies... ). I'm kind of scared to mess with something as big as a power supply for right now. Keyboard repair I can do, maybe some minor analog board work, but PSUs are way too much to attempt.

 

...what would you recommend for an SE/30 with an Ethernet card that would have light use every week? New PSU or recap? My last one had a bad transistor, and I'd hate to have that happen again...

 

You say you have a Sony, which implies "Sony PSU," and then you mentioned your "recapped PSU."  So you have a PSU other than your SONY PSU that someone recapped for you?  Was that an Astec PSU?  And that was the PSU you mentioned had a "bad transistor"?  

 

If that other failed PSU is an Astec, they do "bite the dust" and I would recommend swapping it for a Sony version.  But if your failed PSU was a Sony, it may be worthwhile to replace the bad transistor, assuming you know which one it is and assuming your are absolutely sure that one transistor is the root problem.

 

Your light use case warrants only a recapped Sony PSU.  The Sony will more than suffice.  You really don't need the SEASONIC in your application.  But of course, if you had a SEASONIC PSU, it would serve you well too.  Which PSU requires the most work is something you must decide after watching my SEASONIC video and SONY PSU recap video.  Both take time and thought.  There's less soldering overall with the SEASONIC, but I would suspect most of the SONY PSU's out there merely need recaps, and it's kind of a waste to trash them, sell them for parts or merely throw them in a closet.

 

38 minutes ago, ants said:

@JDW your YouTube video really helped me and was very entertaining. However, as a novice solderer myself, I was sweating bullets when soldering the high-voltage wiring to the PSU. When you also consider the wiring for the rocker switch, there's a lot of wires to deal with in close proximity - all enclosed in a metal box! ...this one is probably the most dangerous and carries a risk of electrocution. This project is not for everyone.

 

True, but there are dangers even when working with the SEASONIC.  There are dangers even opening the back case!  How much of a danger depends on the person opening the back of the case and tinkering inside.  No doubt there are some people who would wait until a rainy day to take their SE/30 outside, plug it in, then open the back case and start tinkering, but I suspect those types are few. :-)  Even so, I agree that some people COULD accidentally shock themselves, especially in countries that use higher mains voltages.  More likely, an inexperienced tinkerer would just end up frying a board due to an epic blunder.  Goodness knows I've done that, and even recently no less!  Ah... my poor 40MHz Daystar Turbo 040! :-( 

 

You do need to discharge the CRT for safety whenever working inside the case.  People who forget that are not necessarily in danger of their life because the bleeder resistor will usually drain the CRT pretty fast and those resistors aren't failing left and right either.  Also, most vintage computer owners know not to touch the back of the CRT yoke (where all those scary copper wires are).  So the end result is we don't hear about a lot of people getting shocked when working in these machines.  I think it would be fun to poll our 68kMLA members to see if anyone has even been shocked.  You need to be careful, but it's not quite as scary as some make it out to be.

 

I personally do TRIPLE-CHECKS when I recap anything, and that is especially true of the PSU.  You do NOT want to solder in even one cap with the polarity reversed.  You most likely won't die, but the bigger the cap the bigger the explosion when the cap vents through its top.  The cap itself might even fly off the PCB like a rocket -- I've seen that.  For those of you who are very worried, I would recommend eye protection.  Eye-glasses are OK, but I'm talking about the polycarbonate kind that you would wear when using a spinning string cutter outdoors to protect your eyes from flying debris.  And I personally would not test a PSU on mains voltages that don't have a known-good breaker.

 

These recapping and PSU-replacement projects aren't for everyone, but it's a fact that most people are too frightened to try something new.  I don't want to push a scared person too close to a cliff, but at the same time, some of us do need a little prodding to get started with something that could benefit us down the line.  Yes, there are dangers, and one must be very cautious, but with care, patience, thought, a slow pace, and a detailed guide, I believe that many of our members could do these jobs if they set their mind to it.  That is why I made those YouTube videos, to give people a little assistance and show them what's involved every step of the way.  

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Thanks for your helpful reply.

So I first got my SE/30, and it had a recapped logic board. I took out the analog board AND the original Sony PSU to both be recapped. Two years later, last December (2018), I was noticing video jitter sometimes when cold. It was also throwing random disk errors. Techknight told me it was probably a bad transistor in the PSU (Again, it was a Sony). I bought a "new" Sony PSU from ebay. That fixed the jitter, but now Im getting lines from the mains from the frequency of the current from the filter caps (Id guess) starting to lose capacitance. My old recapped Sony was traded in exchange for something to a member on here for testing purposes. So, I guess Ill go with a recap if nobody steps up to rebuild mine.

 

I have no idea if the old one had a bad transistor, and wasnt too keen on opening it up and testing individual components since in my case it wasnt something I could replicate or measure without it being on. It wont be trashed or anything, just probably be used for parts (And hey, its got all new caps too. lol)

Edited by Johnnya101

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3 minutes ago, Johnnya101 said:

I took out the analog board AND the original Sony PSU to both be recapped. Two years later, last December (2018), I was noticing video jitter sometimes when cold. It was also throwing random disk errors. Techknight told me it was probably a bad transistor in the PSU (Again, it was a Sony)... My old recapped Sony was traded in exchange for something to a member on here for testing purposes.

Thank you for the details.  So your original Sony PSU which had the jitters was indeed recapped, it seems.  OK.  I still am curious as to the root cause of the jitters, so if you could PM me with the name of the member who took that PSU from you, I will PM them and ask what their testing revealed. I'm very curious!

 

Recapping always carries the risk that after the job is done and done well, something else on the PCB could be a problem that wasn't detectable prior to the recap.  However, the Sony PSU's tend to be built very well, so I would say it's highly unlikely a recap of a second Sony PSU would result in similar problems.  Even so, if you are worried about that possibility, however rare it would be, then your best recourse would be to purchase the SEASONIC and follow my video on that.

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@Crutch your solution of wiring the soft power of the Seasonic to the original switch is very elegant - I wish I had of read your post in more detail before I did my upgrade!

 

My Mac works great with the new PSU, but alas I still can't get my Daystar and Ethernet cards to work at the same time - I still get weird screen artefacts and system crashes. @Crutch did your new PSU resolve your similar problems?

 

I guess my next port of call is to recap the analog board!

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BTW, the Seasonic power supply is back down to $41 at Newegg.  It was up around $50 for quite a while.  Still not down to ~$30 as it was a while.     

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151211

 

SuperBiz has the 300 watt version for $48 and the 250 watt for $46.   Their regular price is lower than what seems to be Newegg's regular price.

https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-S300SU2&similar=766

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When mulling PSU options for the SE and SE/30, bear in mind the stock PSU is fanless, while the SEASONIC has a fan.  It's not too loud and certainly not something you'd notice if you have a spinning platter HDD inside.  But if you have a SCSI2SD inside and a quiet replacement for the ELINA stock case fan, your machine would then be quiet enough to where you would hear the SEASONIC fan when it kicks on.  People with no PDS cards or only one would get by with a SONY PSU recap (assuming there are no other problems other than bad caps), and you would get a perfectly quiet PSU too.

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@ants thanks for asking - sadly, no! There are many happy consequences of my PSU upgrade (brighter screen, general satisfaction with the universe), but sadly a setup that works with my Daystar 040 accelerator plus Asante MacCon isn’t one of them. My Daystar card - which I have noticed runs very hot even on its own (do they always?) - only seems to last about 5 minutes when the MacCon is added before I see a random freeze or bomb. 

 

That said, my Diimo 50 MHz 030 plus the same MacCon works flawlessly (and much cooler, and not noticeably slower with my 7.5.5 setup) - so that’s my everyday setup for now. My analog board is recapped, also. 

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