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MikeatOSX

Dead SE/30 question

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Hi, 

I got a dead SE/30:

no boing but short rustle from the speaker, black screen, no sound from floppy, SCSI2SD board blinks once, when the Mac is switched on. That's all. 

I've read "The dead Mac scrolls" and more and these books told me about a bad analog board when getting a black screen. More failures may come, when I get a working screen...

So I bought a (working ! ?) analog board / power supply from ebay and replaced the old board and power supply. 

Same problem now. :(

Could this failure be on the video board or logic board as well?

Hope you can help me. :)

Thanks!

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A bad logic board can produce no video even with a good A/B... As others said, if not recapped, recap that thing first. If you have a spare board from another SE/30 or even an SE, you could try and swap logic boards just to make sure the A/B is fine.

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9 hours ago, BadGoldEagle said:

If you have a spare board from another SE/30 or even an SE, you could try and swap logic boards just to make sure the A/B is fine.

Great!

I tried the logic board of my working SE and after the bong I got a horizontal white line. When I press on the left topside I get a blurred message, telling me to register ConflictCatcher. The screen collapses after a while until I press again.

It seems the ebay seller sent me an analog board ("tested working") with cracked solder joints. :/

 

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Edited by MikeatOSX
pics

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Now I did it vice versa.

I tried the SE/30 logic board in the known good SE. 

No bong, black screen, fan is working, SCSI2SD seem to start. 

That's all. 

So the SE/30 logic board is buggy, I suppose.

UE8 ?

 

 

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That's a start...

 

If I were you, I'd try to get my money (partially) back. Can you try another neck board? Perhaps the one from your working SE? I've heard the weird cut-off thing you're experiencing can be caused by a failed component on that tiny little board. 

 

Again, was the board washed and recapped? Cap goo could be causing a short circuit somewhere.

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I resoldered the 4 pins of the P1 connector and got a steady screen now (with the SE logic board in the SE/30). 

Yes, a neck (video) board (and a second analog board) is still in the customs office here, I get it from Canada. 

No, the board is not yet cleaned, as I got it yesterday and I wanted to see if it

is working. 

I'm not satisfied with the screen after recalibrating it: still a bit blurry, can't dim it, as the adjusting knob below the screen does not work. Also I cannot adjust the width. :(

The SE analog and video board are much better. Maybe I'll swap them. 

IMG_3170.PNG

Edited by MikeatOSX

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1 hour ago, MikeatOSX said:

So the SE/30 logic board is buggy, I suppose.

UE8 ?

 

First changing caps and cleaning and then UE8 and its neighbours.

Edited by Bolle

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So I have to bite the bullet in my spare time. :(

Some other Macs (68k PowerBooks) are also waiting for a long time. Got the fourth SCSI2SD PB Edition today...

p

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9 hours ago, BadGoldEagle said:

If I were you, I'd try to get my money (partially) back.

This seller is able to remove negative feedbacks as I found out, so he always gets 100% positive although selling scrap:

sold item

I'll try the second bought analog board when I get it from the customs office and then I'll decide which one of these 3 boards I'll try to repair.

The original analog board was rev C but not in a good shape, the others are rev B and rev A. 

Today it's board washing time...

 

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After that all I had an idea and so I cleaned the original analog board of my SE/30 (rev. C), installed a new Noctua fan and put everything back together including the SE logic board. And what should I say: I got a beautiful clear screen from the beginning, just like new! 

Everything is working fine: screen, analog board, power supply, video board, floppy drive and SCSI2SD, except the SE/30 logic board which is definitly damaged although it looks like new after cleaning. :(

And I, as an idiot as I am, bought 2 used analog boards (rev. A and B) from fleabay. :wacko:

Recapped SE/30 logic boards are very hard to find, as far as I know. :sad:

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image.jpeg

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Very common issue on the SE/30.  Recap the board.  If you are lucky everything will work.  I have 3 SE/30's.  1 was dead like yours, 1 worked with no sound and the 3rd was working.  I recapped all 3 and got two to work 100% and the one with no sound stil has no sound.  All had lots of leakage and smelled of fish when I removed the caps!  Looks like corroded traces around the sound chip from those leaked caps which is very common.

Edited by TjLaZer

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34 minutes ago, TjLaZer said:

Looks like corroded traces around the sound chip from those leaked caps which is very common.

After washing the logic board the speaker produces loud noise now, some sort of screeching as if I would feed the speaker with DC. :(
And still black screen...

Edited by MikeatOSX

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Again, recap the board first or have it recapped by someone else (some members here offer a recap service or use maccaps.com). That's the first thing you should do before fiddling with anything else on an SE/30 board. You could be right, fuses could be the culprit but a recap usually fixes most issues as illustrated by TjLaZer here. Bad caps and shorts are the #1 cause of malfunction. 

 

Other than that, congrats on your A/B job. Gotta love the Noctua. Personally, I would have gone with one from their "pro" series because they're grey instead of cream/brown. But good choice nevertheless. 

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If you’re not up to recapping it yourself you can send it to me if you want. We’re practically neighbours, no need to send it off over the pond to maccaps. ;)

 

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It's back to the living... kind of at least.

 

Recapped it - still no video. No HSync and VSync output.

Popped off UE8 and ran it through the tester - dead.

Installed a new LS166 and still no video.

Popped off UF8 and UG8 and they were both dead as well. I started to loose trust in my IC tester as I had never seen three of those failing at once.

I removed two 74F393 from one of my boards to see if my tester even worked correctly and both tested just fine. While I was at it I installed both of my F393s on MikeatOSX's board and finally got a sign of live out of it.

Video is working fine now. It is booting off an SCSI HDD just fine, ADB is good, Floppy drive works.

 

The only thing missing now is sound. I am rarely getting real sound from the speaker (or even headphones - doesn't make a difference)

It's all just crackling, noise and pops. As soon as I select a different alert sound in the sound CP the machine locks up hard. Pretty sure the ASC is toast.

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Or a data/address line to the ASC is open. Ive seen that more times than I can count. There is also a couple connections that go back to the GLU IC that will open as well. 

Edited by techknight

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Ruled out the soundchip itself by swapping in another one from a known working IIci. Did solder the supposedly bad soundchip onto the IIci board to doublecheck.

IIci still has sound, SE/30 still crackles and pops most of the time.

 

What I discovered and what really makes me wonder what's wrong here is that sound works just normal like every 20 resets. If you have sound working and reset or reboot the machine it is gone again.

Gotta love intermittent issues... connections to and from the ASC check out fine so far.

 

So what other players are in the game? GLU has to issue chip select to the ASC. ASC issues interrupts to VIA1. We have the two Sony DACs and the amplifier at UA9.

What is the crystal connected to the ASC used for?

Edited by Bolle

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Got it.

 

I measured the crystal right at the beginning of the whole troubleshooting and it did put out the correct frequency.

With everything else basically ruled out (all traces checked out fine and most of the involved ICs swapped with known good ones) I started heating and cooling down parts on the board to see if something changes...

and so it did. When heating up the crystal right next to the ASC the sound came on. When letting it sit to cool down sound disappeared again.

It must have been putting out a weak signal - heating up makes the crystal swing more which strengthens the output signal.

 

Replaced the crystal resulted in perfectly working sound output.

Another case closed :)

 

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