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Mac SE Problems

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So a few moths ago I bought an SE with 800k internal floppy and 20 MB internal HDD.  It worked for about a week before problems started.  I was trying to install Word 5.1, but it wouldn't install unless I removed all anti-virus software so I deleted the Norton software on the HDD.  When I rebooted the machine, the OS (6.0.8) didn't start up.  Figuring that I probably screwed up the OS install by deleting Norton, I downloaded some system 7.0 floppy images and wrote them to some disks using my Powerbook G3.  I tried to install system 7, but it said that something was wrong with the HDD and refused to install.  I rebooted and inserted the system 7 boot disk and tried using disk first aid, but to no avail.  I opened up the machine and reseated the scsi cable, and still the HDD refused to work.

 

At that point I decided to buy another HDD, so I did.  unfortunately, I couldn't get the old HDD out.  There are two screws on my HDD, one on the left and one on the right (I know that on other SE's, the second screw is usually under the HDD).  The right one is underneath the CRT and due to this, I couldn't get my screwdriver to connect to the screw.  Since my screwdriver has detachable bits, I detached the Phillips #2 bit and while I was able to connect to the screw I couldn't turn it.  I also noticed a leaking cap near the CRT (I think it was on the flyback transformer, if I'm using the right term).   So at this point, I decided I would go the external HDD route and deal with the cap later since I have no soldering skills and its location so close to the CRT made me nervous.  I decided to turn the machine on again just for the heck of it and now the FDD doesn't read floppies.  At that point, I just got frustrated and gave up.  I got the SE for $50 on ebay, so I guess it's not a huge loss, but still it is a nice looking machine and one I would've loved to use a lot.

 

So why am I making a thread now?  Because I'm curious if I should try to fix this machine or not.  New Year's is a time of reflection I guess.  If I should fix it, would an external floppy work or do I need to replace the internal one?  What is the best method of replacing that leaking capacitor I saw or should I ask a more experienced person to recap for me?  Would I be better off just getting another SE?

 

Thanks

 

EDIT: Topic accidentally posted twice.  If any mods are reading this, could you please delete the other copy of this thread?

Edited by MacFox
topic accidentally posted twice

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In my personal opinion, every classic mac is worth saving (unless it has serious battery corrosion beyond repair).

 

Look up some tutorials on youtube on how to clean the floppy drive; that would be my first guess. You may also have bumped something while fiddling with the hard drive, so double check the connections there. Also, it should work just fine with an external floppy (though I do not own an SE/30 so I cannot say for sure).

 

As for the hard drive, I would find a system 6 disk tools, since it's lighter than system 7. If your model has 4mb ram, it would also be a good choice for the OS in general since it's lighter. Try formatting the hard drive multiple times, and also verify it multiple times. I had an issue on my powerbook where I accidentally unplugged it (and the battery is bad) causing it to force shut down. It would not boot after that, and required a fresh install of the system folder.

 

Also from my experience (though it looks like you were able to get it to boot fine), I would use a much older system than a powerbook g3 to make your boot floppies. My method is to use my iBook G3 with a USB floppy to copy the disk images to my PB 160, and then use DiskCopy to write them to disks.

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concerning the hard drive, remove the Logic board, you will find 4 screws holding the floppy drive bracket AND HD bracket, it will be far easier to remove the stubborn screw.

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Just opened up the SE again and it turns out that the motherboard end of the floppy cable was a little loose.  I reseated it and now the floppy drive is working again.

 

Oh and I was wrong about the location of the caps.  It's the analog board not the flyback transformer.  I took some pictures of the board when I was in there (I used my iPhone SE to take pictures of a Macintosh SE, how fitting).  

 

 

 

 

 

Mac SE.jpeg

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Glad to hear that the floppy works again! Sometimes it is just the simplest connections that make the difference.

 

Does the hard drive still spin up? Maybe it's stuck...

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On 1/2/2018 at 3:46 PM, TechEdison said:

Glad to hear that the floppy works again! Sometimes it is just the simplest connections that make the difference.

 

Does the hard drive still spin up? Maybe it's stuck...

The hard drive still spins up and the red access light still comes on, but instead of going to the OS I get the dreaded floppy disk with a ? screen.

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On 1/1/2018 at 10:05 PM, MacFox said:

Just opened up the SE again and it turns out that the motherboard end of the floppy cable was a little loose.  I reseated it and now the floppy drive is working again.

 

Oh and I was wrong about the location of the caps.  It's the analog board not the flyback transformer.  I took some pictures of the board when I was in there (I used my iPhone SE to take pictures of a Macintosh SE, how fitting).  

 

+1 on the SCSI2SD.

 

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see a leaking cap in the photo.  If you're referring to the white substance between the components, that's glue, not electrolyte.

Has the power or the video given you any issues to suggest leaking caps?  The SE is one of the more bulletproof compacts and not nearly as susceptible to leaking cap issues as the SE/30, Classic, Classic II and Color Classic.

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6 hours ago, dan75th said:

+1 on the SCSI2SD.

 

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see a leaking cap in the photo.  If you're referring to the white substance between the components, that's glue, not electrolyte.

Has the power or the video given you any issues to suggest leaking caps?  The SE is one of the more bulletproof compacts and not nearly as susceptible to leaking cap issues as the SE/30, Classic, Classic II and Color Classic.

Oh okay, I thought the caps were leaking.  The video and power are just fine.  

Edited by MacFox

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1 hour ago, MacFox said:

Oh okay, I thought the caps were leaking.  The video and power are just fine.  

Nope, it's just glue to help keep the larger components in place a little more securely in case it gets bumped around.  It provides an additional anchor point so the solder joints aren't bearing all of the stress.  You should be fine.

Edited by dan75th

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Well here's an update on how things are going.  I finally got a new hard drive in there.  I had to remove the logic board to get to the screws holding the bracket in place, but I did it.  It works, however it doesn't fit perfectly.  It's an old 40 MB Conner Drive.  I know they can break down, but I was desperate when I bought it back in September.  If it dies on me I'll replace it with something newer now that I know how to replace a hard drive.  The new HDD isn't as tall as the old one, and I was only able to put screws in two of the four holes.  It seems steady enough, though I would have preferred to have all four screws in there.  I also must have connected the cable for the red access light wrong since it doesn't come on anymore.  Also, the speaker cable was disconnected from the logic board when I took out the board.  I tried to re-connect the cable, but when I do that, the board won't slide into the grooves.  I currently, have the speaker cable disconnected from the logic board.  I'm gonna take a break for the night and work on this some more tomorrow.  

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UPDATE: Turns out I had the HDD access light cable upside down.  I now have it in the right way.  Still can't get the speaker cable to stay connected to the motherboard though.  I'm just gonna leave the speaker cable disconnected for now.

 

I decided to install system 7.0 on the HDD since I have 4 MB of RAM installed.

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It sounds as if you are sliding the logic board through the grooves from the top all the way down. Don't do that. Attach the speaker cable to the logic board first. Then, with the reverse of the logic board facing you and the rear port connectors facing upwards, slot the left side in to its groove an inch or two up from all the way in. You will see the right side of the logic board is notched into tabs and the tabs should align with gaps in the right hand groove. If not, slide the logic board gently up or down the left groove until the tabs on the right hand side align with the gaps and then move the right side of the logic board until it is in the right side groove then slide down home. Easy when you know how. 

 

I didn't at first and almost broke the speaker connection pins trying to get the cable off with the logic board in situ. There are guides on Youtube or Apple's Mac SE Hardware Repair Manual that make it clear what I tried to explain above.

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On 2/4/2018 at 5:43 PM, SDug said:

It sounds as if you are sliding the logic board through the grooves from the top all the way down. Don't do that. Attach the speaker cable to the logic board first. Then, with the reverse of the logic board facing you and the rear port connectors facing upwards, slot the left side in to its groove an inch or two up from all the way in. You will see the right side of the logic board is notched into tabs and the tabs should align with gaps in the right hand groove. If not, slide the logic board gently up or down the left groove until the tabs on the right hand side align with the gaps and then move the right side of the logic board until it is in the right side groove then slide down home. Easy when you know how. 

 

I didn't at first and almost broke the speaker connection pins trying to get the cable off with the logic board in situ. There are guides on Youtube or Apple's Mac SE Hardware Repair Manual that make it clear what I tried to explain above.

Thanks.  I followed your instructions and it worked.

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I didn't mention this earlier, but the SE still had the PRAM battery soldered on.  It was a Varta which, according to old threads I found, is not infamous for leaking like the Maxells are.  I decided to remove the battery anyway using a side cutter.  How I did it was I gripped the bottom of each of the two wires holding the battery in place and twisted them until they came loose.  The one on the right came clean off without a problem, but the one on the left snapped in half.  I pulled out what remained of the left wire and while there is probably still old solder left, the wires were completely removed.  After that, I booted up the SE again and it still works.

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