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Maximum HD capacity on a 6100

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Hi,

 

I've been toying with the Acard 7720 SCSI/IDE adaptor http://www.acard.com/english/fb01-product.jsp?idno_no=23&prod_no=AEC-7720U&type1_title=SCSIDE%20Bridge&type1_idno=2 .

 

I installed it in one of my 6100 where I needed a large capacity drive and the one I had were failing or defective. So I installed a 20 gig IDE drive in it, but so far, only 2 GB of the 20 GB are detected with system 7.5.3.

 

I found this article on Apple web site:

 

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA28860

 

Am I OK to assume that my problem is there and that this computer won't see more than 2GB anytime soon, not even multiple 2 GB partitions?

 

Thanks

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Am I OK to assume that my problem is there and that this computer won't see more than 2GB anytime soon, not even multiple 2 GB partitions?

 

1. Mac OS is not really intended to be used with multiple Mac OS partitions on a single drive, it messes up the user model.

 

2. Running 8.1 you can use HFS+ on the drive.

 

3. Throw mklinux on the remaining 18Gig.

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Aaaa... the 6100 doesn't use IDE. It uses SCSI and I don't really remember an upper limit on the size of the hard drive. As long as you are running system 7.5.3 there really is not a limit you will reach anytime soon.

 

Did you mean you have a 6200?

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As long as you are running system 7.5.3 there really is not a limit you will reach anytime soon.

 

You mean apart from the 2Gig partition limit of HFS?

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Umm.. I don't remember any 2gb limit on HFS. I remeber that the custer sizes were huge after 2gb's, but there is no limit, and I have a quadra 630 sitting right here(need to put it back together) that I should test this out on. I need to scrape the corrosion off my gray matter anyways :p

 

and that article even says the limit is 2 terabytes, not gigabytes.

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Umm.. I don't remember any 2gb limit on HFS.

 

You may be thinking of HFS+.

 

A hint is the range of a signed 32 bit number.

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Isn't 2GB the max file size on HFS, not the max volume size? Power Macs certainly came with >2 GB hard disks before Mac OS 8.1 was released.

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Isn't 2GB the max file size on HFS, not the max volume size? Power Macs certainly came with >2 GB hard disks before Mac OS 8.1 was released.

 

In my experience, when you use the HD Setup tool on a 3gig drive, it makes an HFS partition 2Gig in size.

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Isn't 2GB the max file size on HFS, not the max volume size? Power Macs certainly came with >2 GB hard disks before Mac OS 8.1 was released.

 

In my experience, when you use the HD Setup tool on a 3gig drive, it makes an HFS partition 2Gig in size.

 

I'm sorry porter, not trying to make enemies already, but you are incorrect. I just formatted a seagate 40GB IDE drive in my Frankenstein 630(6200 motherboard) that I pieced back together(use together very loosely) and it formated just fine. The pic is from my cell phone, the machine is kind of in pieces, but just wanted to make the point. There is no upper limit (besides 2 terabytes) on regular HFS. What apple says and what is reality are 2 totally different things, I didn't think my brain was that dried up yet :p I'd also like to add that a simple 4K file takes up 1.1MB's 8-o on a regular HFS formatted 40GB HD. So if you are having issues with using an HD larger than 2GB's on a machine, it is because, 1. It is not supported by the setup utility, or 2. you are trying to use some off the wall adapter.

 

enjoy!

 

391674085_macos.jpg

http://img.hostmyjpg.com/391674085_macos.jpg

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Aaaa... the 6100 doesn't use IDE. It uses SCSI and I don't really remember an upper limit on the size of the hard drive. As long as you are running system 7.5.3 there really is not a limit you will reach anytime soon.

 

Did you mean you have a 6200?

 

I really meant a 6100, and if you look at my first message, I used a SCSI to IDE adaptor to install a huge HD (that is compare to the default it had before!) into this machine.

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I'm on installing OS 8 on this machine. The HD utility in OS 8 does not recognize the HD as an Apple drive, so I used Lido again. Strangely Lido detects the drive as 78 gig, while it is 20 gig. Any idea?

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I'm on installing OS 8 on this machine. The HD utility in OS 8 does not recognize the HD as an Apple drive, so I used Lido again. Strangely Lido detects the drive as 78 gig, while it is 20 gig. Any idea?

 

Lido? Never heard of it. use FWB hard disk toolkit. Or just go onto ebay and purchase a 36gb SCSI drive. They are selling for 99c right now. That's what I had in my 9600 with an SCA to SCSI adapter, worked great.

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I'm on installing OS 8 on this machine. The HD utility in OS 8 does not recognize the HD as an Apple drive, so I used Lido again. Strangely Lido detects the drive as 78 gig, while it is 20 gig. Any idea?

 

Lido? Never heard of it. use FWB hard disk toolkit. Or just go onto ebay and purchase a 36gb SCSI drive. They are selling for 99c right now. That's what I had in my 9600 with an SCA to SCSI adapter, worked great.

 

I second that. FWB Hard Disk Toolkit is a great hard drive formatter.

 

If you can't source FWB Hard Disk Toolkit, try MicroNet Utility.

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FWB is the still not so free formating utility, right? To use this a few times a year, I'm not sure it is worth it!

 

I used Lido for a while and it has been working fine. I heard about it on this site. Up to date, Lido has been working fine.

 

I thought about it, and remembered that my Performa 6360 had a 1.6 Gb IDE drive. So I put this one into my Performa 6115CD, should be OK for my need. Then I put the 20 gig into the 6360. Now I have to find a way to reinstall OS 8 or 8.5 on the 6360. The the 20 gig already have a 8.0 bootable system for the 6100 and it is not correct for the 6360. But I can't figure out a way to make it boot from the CD!! damn!

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If you had another system with native IDE support, why didn't you just format it with that system in the first place?

 

maybe because I have not thought about it before? Is there a problem here? anyway my initial question was about the maximum capacity HD of the 6100, not about formating.

 

In anycase the 6100 may not have regonize the drive anyway since it could not boot from a partition larger than 2 gb anyway.

 

Now my main issue is with the 6360 that do not want to boot 8.5!

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If you had another system with native IDE support, why didn't you just format it with that system in the first place?

 

maybe because I have not thought about it before? Is there a problem here? anyway my initial question was about the maximum capacity HD of the 6100, not about formating.

 

In anycase the 6100 may not have regonize the drive anyway since it could not boot from a partition larger than 2 gb anyway.

 

Now my main issue is with the 6360 that do not want to boot 8.5!

 

But your question is about formating because it is not that the 6100 has a HD size ceiling, but that either the drive you are using, or the software you are trying to format it with is not supported and that is the issue. Formating the HD in another machine with native IDE support, and then transferring the drive back into the 6100 might take care of your issue.

 

For the 6360 you need to hold the "C" key down to boot from the CD. You can also try "Command+Option+Shift+Delete" to shut off the internal HD and it will look to the CDROM for a bootable volume. If that is not working than either your CDROM has an issue, or your copy of 8.5 is defective.

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But your question is about formating because it is not that the 6100 has a HD size ceiling, but that either the drive you are using, or the software you are trying to format it with is not supported and that is the issue.

 

My initial question was about the HD size limit on the 6100 running 7.5.3. The software you talked about IS Lido 7 and I'm wandering why you mention it is not supported. Is is not supported anymore, maybe, but for all the tasks I've asked it to do in the past, it worked fine. Except this one.

 

Formating the HD in another machine with native IDE support, and then transferring the drive back into the 6100 might take care of your issue.

 

Maybe, but nothings proved me that the 6100 would be able to both from it anyway. When I got this machine (in fact I got 2 at the same time) they both had 2 gig HD, and were working well, but never been able to install more than that in it.

 

For the 6360 you need to hold the "C" key down to boot from the CD. You can also try "Command+Option+Shift+Delete" to shut off the internal HD and it will look to the CDROM for a bootable volume. If that is not working than either your CDROM has an issue, or your copy of 8.5 is defective.

 

That is what I've done, and maybe the problem is the hardware. I'm still investigating this.

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Most versions of System 7 were exceedingly unstable on the 6100 and other PowerMacs, in my experience. I would suggest going up to 8.1 unless you have some special reason to hang on to System 7. This should fix your drive size issue as well IIRC.

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maybe because I have not thought about it before? Is there a problem here? anyway my initial question was about the maximum capacity HD of the 6100, not about formating.

 

In anycase the 6100 may not have regonize the drive anyway since it could not boot from a partition larger than 2 gb anyway.

 

To answer your question, the SCSI bus in a PowerMac 6100 will work with drives up to 2 terabytes. You can get a 2 terabyte SATA drive, connect it to a SATA-IDE adapter, then to your IDE-SCSI adapter and see the entire drive. I have a similar setup in my Amiga 4000.

 

With regards to how you'd format it, you could use FWB or other programs, but later versions of Drive Setup should be able to be used regardless of the make of the drive. However, I'd recommend 8.1 or higher (you can run up to 9.1, at least) so you can use HFS+ partitions.

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Just to clarify one point of confusion in this thread: (quotes to follow)

 

I found this article on Apple web site:

 

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA28860

 

Am I OK to assume that my problem is there and that this computer won't see more than 2GB anytime soon, not even multiple 2 GB partitions?

 

Isn't 2GB the max file size on HFS, not the max volume size? Power Macs certainly came with >2 GB hard disks before Mac OS 8.1 was released.

 

In my experience, when you use the HD Setup tool on a 3gig drive, it makes an HFS partition 2Gig in size.

 

I'm sorry porter, not trying to make enemies already, but you are incorrect. ...

 

The 2GB figure the Apple KB article is referring to is in reference to the largest volumes that can be reliably used by elderly versions of the Appleshare file sharing protocol. Mounting network volumes larger then that will cause unpredictable behavior. This is unrelated to local hard disk size limits.

 

Here's the Apple KB about it.

 

The same article does seem to imply that System versions prior to 7.5 placed a 2GB volume limit on local hard disk partitions. If someone has a whopping big drive in a machine that can run 7.1 or earlier it might be an exercise for the reader to see if it will allow a partition larger then 2 GB.

 

The Wikipedia article on HFS concurs with the 2 Terabyte absolute limit. The real problem of course is since it's limited to 16 bit's worth of allocation blocks the minimum file size is 1/65,536th of the whole disk. This is similar the limitations on FAT16 DOS partitions, which is why Microsoft *did* set a maximum partition size of 2GB for them. (Just to be pedantic, Windows NT upped that to 4GB but consumer versions of Windows never supported the larger size properly.)

 

So, in short, a 6100 *should* support a giant hard drive with an IDE converter formatted to full capacity under System 7.5, but you'll be wasting tonnes of space. You'd be much better off running OS 8 or even 9 on it. (assuming you have the RAM for the latter)

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Mac OS 9.x will run on a 6100, but is tricky to install. You need a retail install CD (ie a full generic install disk, not a model specific disk) and to boot from the CD. You can't boot from Mac OS 8.6 or earlier, and then run the installer.

 

Is it worth running Mac OS 9.x on a 6100? Possibly if an app requires it, but most will work with 8.6. The main advantage of 9.x is the extra compatibility with OS X (eg file sharing).

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The 6100 supports up to 9.1, but you must install it from a 9.1 disc. You cannot boot a 6100 from a 9.0 install disc (even a retail one), so you can't install 9.0 or update to 9.1 from 9.0.

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Mac OS 9.x will run on a 6100, but is tricky to install. You need a retail install CD (ie a full generic install disk, not a model specific disk) and to boot from the CD. You can't boot from Mac OS 8.6 or earlier, and then run the installer.

 

Is it worth running Mac OS 9.x on a 6100? Possibly if an app requires it, but most will work with 8.6. The main advantage of 9.x is the extra compatibility with OS X (eg file sharing).

 

'Bout to say, yes, I knew someone who *definitely* had 9 on a 6100/60. And what a fantastic machine it was. Or... not.

 

I personally have a grudge against 8.6 from having to deal with a Photoshop machine that was running it and would fall over at the drop of a hat. But given that general consensus seems to be that 8.6 was one of the more stable Classic OSes it could just be that the machine-specific 8.6 that shipped on early AGP G4 towers was garbage.

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