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​LC 575 logic board in a Color Classic: ​Mods to the board?

8.1

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#1 mraroid

mraroid
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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:18 PM

Hi folks....
 
I have been slowing collecting parts to do a hardware mod to a LC 575 board so I could slide it into my Color Classic.  I am not doing a video mod.  I am keeping (for now any way) the 512 X 384 screen resolution.  All I am trying to do now is install a faster board so my Color Classic can have a bit more speed.  I am running a Color Classic II board in it now.
 
I have seen posts on this forum saying that if all I want to do is install 8.1, I can just slide a un modified LC 575 logic board into my CC, and install 8.1.  I was skeptical.  But I ordered a 8.1 CD anyway.  This CD is a apple branded CD. 
 
I installed the LC 575 board, and healed down the "C" key.  I boot to the bomb (just as I did with a 8.0 CD).  I received a error message to boot with extensions off (as I did with a 8.0 CD) and had the same problem.  I think this will just not work.  If someone knows otherwise and can toss me a bone, please post a message.
 
I am going to do the resister mod to the LC 575 board. This is taken from the Mystic upgrade page here:
 
 
On the bottom of that page I read this:
 
*************************************
2.1.13 — I'm a complete klutz with ResEdit. Can't I do some soldering instead? Yep. Remove R116 (zero ohms, located on the bottom of the 575 logic board to the left of RP9) and solder a 4.7K ohm resistor at R109 (near R116). If you don't have the proper resistor, you can get away with using the zero-ohm resistor you just removed. Make sure nothing is installed across R110 (remove anything you find there) and you should be ready to go. 
*****************************************
 
So I am thinking that is the way to go.  I wanted to run several OSs on my Color Classic, but my stupid SCSI2CF adapter will only allow me to boot to one partition.  So I am going with a "modern" OS and hope to install 8.1
 
Feedback welcome
 
Thanks
 
mraroid
 
 
 

 
 

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#2 BadGoldEagle

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:49 PM

Humm... If you don't have any PDS cards installed you could theoretically take a compact flash extender and install it where the slot cover is. That way you could swap CF cards on the go. 1 card = 1 OS

ADA-CompactFlash-EXTENDER_500x500_Kabela


COOL STUFF: Working original & nearly complete 1984 Macintosh w/ Picasso kit, still looking for a G440 mouse :p, NIB Newton MessagePad from 1993, iMac G3 400MHz DV Graphite

IN THE WORKS: The outstanding SE/30 (50MHz Powercache, Pivot Display Color Graphics) but also non-working 512K Hyperdrive w/ Manuals & Disks, Mac Portable M5126, SE Dual 800k, Classic II, HD40SC, Apple Djinn... I have a lot of restorations going on!


#3 beachycove

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:30 PM

I never got an unhacked 8.1 to run, either, so as far as I know, those posts are flat wrong.

The ResEdit hacks reside in the System folder, which is not very large. If you duplicate your current folder, and use ResEdit on the copy, you should get your current system working with the new board by making the required changes, renaming the two folders, and rebooting. That would be a start. Whether you then go to 8.1 could be a question for later.

#4 mraroid

mraroid
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Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:34 PM

BadGoldEagle....

 

Brilliant!
 
This is an elegant solution to my problem.  I wanted to be able to run 7.1, 7.6 and 8.1 on my CC.  I have several CF cards.  This sounds like the best way to do this with my SCSI2CF adapter. 
 
Thanks so much!
 

mraroid



#5 mraroid

mraroid
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  • LocationIbarra Ecuador (formally from Portland Oregon USA)

Posted 08 September 2017 - 08:50 PM

beach​ycove...

 
Thank you for your post.  I have not fully understood the correct way to install the 575 logic board. I have a lot of reading yet to do.  I think Techknight's 'Color Classic VGA Mod the correct way' is probably the best (for 640 X 480).  But I am stuck in Ecuador and parts are hard to come by and expensive to mail into this country.  I was looking yet again at the older VGA mod.
 
I found this web page which may be made by someone on this forum:
 
 
It links to this page:
 
 
I want to install the 575 logic board and get it up and running with 8.1.  After that, I want to look at maybe doing a VGA mod to go to 640 X 480. 
 
I don't know if I will complicate things if I also want to run 7.1 and 7.6. 
 
I need to get my mind around the ResEdit hacks.  I think that will tell me. 
 
Here is a link to Chris Lawson's VGA mod from long ago...
 
 
Yes, posts here talking about installing 8.1 on a un modified LC 575 logic board do not seem to fly.....
 
mraroid


#6 BadGoldEagle

BadGoldEagle
  • 68000

Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:15 PM

I know nothing about those Macs, but can the 575 boot from a HD that already has 8.1 on it? If so, you could set up 8.1 on Basilisk II and then copy the image over to the CF card.

 

And I just saw the price of the CF extender I was talking about earlier, and it's a lot more expensive than I thought it would be. Another solution would be a CF to SD adapter and an SD extension cable. That would be considerably cheaper (except if you have no SD cards lying around). But I don't know if CF to SD adapters work with the SCSI2CF...


COOL STUFF: Working original & nearly complete 1984 Macintosh w/ Picasso kit, still looking for a G440 mouse :p, NIB Newton MessagePad from 1993, iMac G3 400MHz DV Graphite

IN THE WORKS: The outstanding SE/30 (50MHz Powercache, Pivot Display Color Graphics) but also non-working 512K Hyperdrive w/ Manuals & Disks, Mac Portable M5126, SE Dual 800k, Classic II, HD40SC, Apple Djinn... I have a lot of restorations going on!


#7 olwilli

olwilli
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Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:24 PM

Hi Mraroid,

I got 8.1 running good - I got an old original OS 8 CD and just did the update to 8.1... For me there was no problem.

My recommendation is, that you do an VGA Hack and over this you can install all kind of MacOS Versions.

 

You mentioned http://www.powercc.org/640x480/ - there is the VGA Hack good described, you can easy do that if you got some solder skills ;-)

 

I tried long time ago with this resedit things and my mind went crazy about that.


:) System 1: Apple Colour Classic Mystic with LC 575 Logicboard, 640x480@67Hz, 33MHz, 128MB Ram, Farallon Network Card, 4GB IBM UW SCSI HDD

:) System 2: Apple Colour Classic Takky with PowerMac 6500 Board, 640x480@67Hz, 275MHz, 128MB Ram, Apple CSII Network Card, 8GB IBM IDE HDD   


#8 mraroid

mraroid
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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:11 PM

Thanks for the suggestion olwilli...  I am now looking into that VGA mod.  I just took some photos of the analog board in my Color Classic.  Things are *much smaller* than I thought!  :) I need to get out my Dremel tool.

 

Maybe after a good nights sleep and a some coffee I will give it a try... 

 

mraroid

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • mod1.jpg
  • mod2.jpg
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#9 mraroid

mraroid
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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:13 PM

Bad....

 

Another good idea.  I do have a handful of SD cards here.  I will look at an adapter....

 

Thanks!

 

mraroid



#10 mraroid

mraroid
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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:21 PM

OK, I have a question.....

 

If I do this Mystic LC 575 logic board install:

 

http://www.powercc.org/mystic/

 

and then do this VGA mod (option one) here:

 

http://www.powercc.org/640x480/

 

Can I just stick a OS 8.1 CD in my CD drive and install 8.1 onto my hard drive?

 

I do not need to make any mods to my 575 board?  Just the mods to the analog board? Nothing else for 8.1?

 

Thanks

 

mraroid



#11 olwilli

olwilli
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Posted 08 September 2017 - 11:26 PM

Now you are on the right way ;-)

 

Okay - I would suggest that you first do the http://www.powercc.org/640x480/ Mod with Option One. Take your time and do it carefully...

After that, and when you are on 640x480 and you see a picture - in my opinion, you could easily slide in the CD and boot from the OS 8 Install CD.

 

You have to know: OS 8 need a 68040 or 680LC40 CPU to work - It won't work with the CPUs before. Thats why it now won't work.

 

You only have to do the Mods on the analog board - the logic board needs no change. Good Luck ;-)


:) System 1: Apple Colour Classic Mystic with LC 575 Logicboard, 640x480@67Hz, 33MHz, 128MB Ram, Farallon Network Card, 4GB IBM UW SCSI HDD

:) System 2: Apple Colour Classic Takky with PowerMac 6500 Board, 640x480@67Hz, 275MHz, 128MB Ram, Apple CSII Network Card, 8GB IBM IDE HDD   


#12 mraroid

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 12:12 AM

olwilli....

 

OK!  Thank you so much!  I will find my dremel and give it a try.  I have my analog board removed from the color classic.  So I am ready to give it a try. My LC 575 logic board has been re caped.  It has a 68LC040 in it now, but I have a full 68040 processor to drop into it.

 

Maybe tomorrow.  I will report back and post some photos.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

 

mraroid



#13 beachycove

beachycove
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Posted 09 September 2017 - 12:47 AM

In my view, a CC with a 640x480 screen would be more or less unusable because frankly my 56 year old eyes could not read the text. The screen is just right stock, however, so I prefer the software (ResEdit) hack to destruction of the hardware. I have lots of machines that will run at 640x480, but the CC screen as designed is pretty much perfect. Why ruin it?

#14 mraroid

mraroid
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Posted 09 September 2017 - 01:10 PM

hello beachycove....
 
I can't argue with your point of view.  I do love the Color Classic screen as well.  You will be happy to know that I have a second almost all original Color Classic.  The main difference is that it is running a Color Classic II logic board, and the slow SCSI hard drive has been replaced with a SCSI2CF adapter.  It runs nice and fast and looks great in 512 X 384.
 
I am a big fan of CRTs.  I bought the last 16:9 aspect ratio HD CRT that Sony made before the world switched to LED TVs. I have never seen a 1920 X 1080 picture as lovely, not even OLED can come close.
 
Once I viewed a buddy's Color Classic in 640 X 480 running 8.1.  It looked so modern and tight.  The color was awesome.  But I admit I did have to put my reading glasses on..... But I am so old, that I have to do that anyway, just to read a book....
 
Thanks for your post
 
mraroid


#15 68krazy

68krazy
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Posted 09 September 2017 - 05:54 PM

I am also a fan of CRTs, particularly Trinitron displays.

I had an XBR960 back in the day. Got it free, changed out the two ICs in the power supply and watched it for a few years. Stunning picture, amazing sound with the built-in subwoofer. Sold it for $100 when I moved and it couldn't come with me back in 2012. Wish I still had it; I miss that TV.

                                              68k: LC 550 fully restored, SE/30 fully restored                           PPC: PowerBook G3 Wallstreet PDQ

Owned in the past: Color Classic, Clamshell iBook, Rev. A Bondi Blue iMac, Slot Load 350mhz iMac, Power Mac 7100/80 and 7500/120, Performa 630CD, LC II, Performa 6116CD


#16 mraroid

mraroid
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Posted 09 September 2017 - 06:16 PM

I hear 'ya 68krazy...
 
Just before OLED screens came out I was reading a review of the "money is no object" TVs in a video journal.  They were looking at 65 in screens that cost 22 thousand dollars.  More money then just about any one could afford. As you know, flat screen TVs (even the very best OLED screens) have a spec for "motion artifacts".  The faster the react time the less motion artifact.  Well, as I am sure you know, CRTs do not have a spec for motion artifacts.  Because they have no motion artifacts.  If someone on the screen turns his head quickly, you can see that the flesh turns to mush for a quick second. And no technology to date can reproduce pure black and pure white like a HD CRT can. 
 
As I was reading this very scholarly article and technical details and testing of high end TVs, I wondered how my Sony HD CRT would rate.  So on a lark, I wrote to the author of the article and asked him.  He said the picture on my TV was better then any in the review.  He talked about the extremely high cost of building even a 45 inch CRT, not to mention a 65 inch ones. It was jut not affordable any more he told me.  He said the public wanted bigger screens but also got a worse picture with LED, LCD and Plasma.
 
I have been looking at the flagship LG OLED 65 inch TVs.  They are getting close to what I can see on my Sony CRT.  Maybe I will even buy one if they get just a little bit better. 
 
Who knows, maybe one day we can find some flat panel 9" OLED screens that we can install in a Color Classic.  I'll bet 640 X 480 would look nice and sharp.
 
mraroid
 
PS - I think I am going to watch a Blu-ray on my 'ol Sony tonight. 


#17 mraroid

mraroid
  • 6502
  • LocationIbarra Ecuador (formally from Portland Oregon USA)

Posted 09 September 2017 - 07:05 PM

I got out my dremel tool and started cutting away at my analog board this afternoon.   I then tried my best to solder on two jumper wires in place.  This is really hard with out my workbench magnifying glass I owned in the past.  My jumpers were showing a bit more copper then I wanted, so I used a little black tape to make sure everything was insulated.

 

This was so much easier when I did not wear glasses!  It is not it is not a pretty sight so I hope it works.

 
I will tke the Color CLassic apart tomorrow morning and report back.

 

mraroid

Attached Thumbnails

  • ccm1.jpg
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  • ccm3.jpg
  • ccm4.jpg


#18 olwilli

olwilli
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Posted 09 September 2017 - 07:16 PM

Mraroid - just mentioned that your soldering is not from pin 8 to pin 12... You soldered from pin 7 to pin 12  [:(]

Please correct - otherwise you got a big problem...


Edited by olwilli, 09 September 2017 - 07:19 PM.

:) System 1: Apple Colour Classic Mystic with LC 575 Logicboard, 640x480@67Hz, 33MHz, 128MB Ram, Farallon Network Card, 4GB IBM UW SCSI HDD

:) System 2: Apple Colour Classic Takky with PowerMac 6500 Board, 640x480@67Hz, 275MHz, 128MB Ram, Apple CSII Network Card, 8GB IBM IDE HDD   


#19 mraroid

mraroid
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Posted 09 September 2017 - 07:42 PM

I just caught that.  Thanks for looking it over for me.

 

mraroid



#20 olwilli

olwilli
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  • LocationGermany

Posted 09 September 2017 - 08:08 PM

Nice  ;D  I got a shock as I saw that - but when you got it, go on ;-)

 

Excited to see your next steps.


:) System 1: Apple Colour Classic Mystic with LC 575 Logicboard, 640x480@67Hz, 33MHz, 128MB Ram, Farallon Network Card, 4GB IBM UW SCSI HDD

:) System 2: Apple Colour Classic Takky with PowerMac 6500 Board, 640x480@67Hz, 275MHz, 128MB Ram, Apple CSII Network Card, 8GB IBM IDE HDD   






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