Jump to content


Photo

Lisa 2/10 CRT Deflection Adjustment? (and a software question)


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 armadsen

armadsen
  • 6502

Posted 15 July 2017 - 04:56 AM

I recently got my hands on a Lisa 2/10 in amazing cosmetic condition, but non-working. I repaired the power supply by recapping it and replacing the transformer that's part of the 5V standby and 18V power supply, which was bad. I also disassembled, cleaned, and lubricated the floppy disk load mechanism which was completely seized by hardened lubricant. Anyway, after doing those two things, the machine boots and runs really well!

 

The only remaining (hardware) problem seems to be incorrect deflection on the CRT. The image is a little too narrow horizontally, and a little too tall vertically, as seen here:

 

IMG_4392.jpg

 

I've had a hard time finding information about what could cause this and possible fixes. Are there adjustments for deflection available somewhere? Components that likely need replacing? I'm quite confident in my abilities (I'm an EE), but like to look before I leap and go in with as much knowledge as I can, so I'd really appreciate advice from the Lisa experts here.

 

I also have a software question: The Lisa boots into Lisa Office System 3.1 from the internal Widget drive just fine. However, when I go to run any of the Lisa* apps, I get a message along the lines of "this copy of LisaWrite is not licensed for use on this Lisa". I know the Lisa had a copy protection system whereby the first time apps were installed/run, they were modified with a unique serial number for the machine so they couldn't be copied or used on another Lisa. However, as far as I know, this Lisa has the same hard drive that has been in it since 1984 when it was purchased new. I got it from the original owner, who is quite elderly now, and don't have any reason to suspect that anything unusual has been done with it. There are a couple documents on the hard drive, presumably created by him, that won't open due to that error. Any ideas about what could cause this or how to fix it? I did get the original floppy disks for LOS as well as MacWorks (not installed on the HD that I can find) from him.

 

Thanks for any help. I'm super excited to finally have gotten a Lisa, as it was the last Apple machine I really wanted for my collection.


6502: II+, IIe, IIc+, IIgs | 68K: Lisa 2/10, Mac 128K, Mac Plus, SE/30, Mac II, Color Classic, NeXT Cubes ('030 & '040), etc.

PPC: Bondi iMac, Key Lime iBook, G4 Cube, 20" iMac G4, Quicksilver G4, 12" PB G4 1.33, Dual 1.8 G5, etc.


#2 bibilit

bibilit
  • 68000
  • LocationParis area -FRANCE-

Posted 15 July 2017 - 07:13 AM

Hi,

 

congrats.

 

All adjustments are located under the upper plastic cover.

 

Remove the two hidden screws inside the cards well and remove the lid. 


Macintosh Classic and II ,CC, SE, SE/30,IIsi 25mhz(RasterOps video),Q 700,LC, LC III,LC475, PBook Wallstreet/Bronze/5300cs/1400c/100/Tibook Imac G3 slot-in, Bondi and G4 / PMac G4 sawtooth, QS, MDD, Yikes!, Cube, Imac Core 2 Duo, Ibook G3 (white/clam) G4 + Newton 120, eMate 300,Quicktake 150,  PowerCD


#3 Johnnya101

Johnnya101
  • 68000
  • LocationLancaster, NH

Posted 15 July 2017 - 10:24 PM

Yup. Use an insulated screwdriver, and keep a hand in your back pocket. Machine has to be on for this...

 

(Im guessing it uses screws for adjustment)


resized.gif       BRENT RAMBO APPROVES

Apple IIGS, Classic II, SE/30, Color Classic, Quadra 700, 2x Imagewriter II,  Macintosh Color Display, Power Mac 7100 and 7200, LC II, Macintosh Color Display,  and a box full of ADB keyboards... Soon to be owner of another Quadra 700 and PowerBook 165c


#4 fri0701

fri0701
  • 6502

Posted 16 July 2017 - 12:52 AM

The Lisa stores its information about its serial number (for use in copy protection) in the Video ROM (C6 on the CPU board). I don't know what would be causing your error if you haven't replaced the CPU board or that chip specifically, but there is a command you can run from within service mode where you can see the serial number the Lisa "thinks" it has. Maybe you can try checking that and see if it matches with the number on the case?

Information here about querying the serial number: http://www.applefrit...ial-number-info

 

-fri0701



#5 ScutBoy

ScutBoy
  • 6502
  • LocationNorthfield, MN

Posted 16 July 2017 - 01:07 AM

The disk images for LisaOS and the 7/7 apps are not hard to find on-line. Make new images of "clean" disks and delete the apps from the machine and reinstall.



#6 armadsen

armadsen
  • 6502

Posted 19 July 2017 - 04:04 PM

Thanks everyone. The adjustment wouldn't take the width far enough to fill the screen. It seems like a good idea to recap the video board at the very least, so I've got it out and am doing just that. I'll troubleshoot and fix the deflection issue after recapping.

6502: II+, IIe, IIc+, IIgs | 68K: Lisa 2/10, Mac 128K, Mac Plus, SE/30, Mac II, Color Classic, NeXT Cubes ('030 & '040), etc.

PPC: Bondi iMac, Key Lime iBook, G4 Cube, 20" iMac G4, Quicksilver G4, 12" PB G4 1.33, Dual 1.8 G5, etc.


#7 lisa2

lisa2
  • 6502

Posted 19 July 2017 - 07:46 PM

i don't think it's anything to do with caps...

My guess is that your system had the "screen mod" installed at some point, this would explain why the screen is out of adjustment, and possibly why the vid rom serial number has changed due to the screen mod having been reversed.  

Check if the screen mod transformer is (still) installed, if is then you will never get it adjusted correctly with the 'H' ROMs installed.

Rick



#8 armadsen

armadsen
  • 6502

Posted 19 July 2017 - 07:59 PM

Thanks for the advice, Rick. I don't see a screen mod transformer. As I understand it, it would normally be affixed to the side of the card cage to the right of the CRT. There's nothing there, nor any evidence that it was once there. Here's a photo I just took:

 

IMG_4461.jpg

 

(The video board is missing and the CRT wires floating because I unsoldered them to remove the board. Haven't finished recapping it yet.)

 

Also the seals on the video board adjustment pots were intact when I opened the machine up. I broke them to adjust the width and height.


Edited by armadsen, 19 July 2017 - 08:04 PM.

6502: II+, IIe, IIc+, IIgs | 68K: Lisa 2/10, Mac 128K, Mac Plus, SE/30, Mac II, Color Classic, NeXT Cubes ('030 & '040), etc.

PPC: Bondi iMac, Key Lime iBook, G4 Cube, 20" iMac G4, Quicksilver G4, 12" PB G4 1.33, Dual 1.8 G5, etc.


#9 armadsen

armadsen
  • 6502

Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:54 AM

Replacing all the caps, the 24V (28V) regulator U1, and Q5 on the video board did the trick. Seems to be running beautifully now:

 

IMG_4468.jpg

 

So, still on my list is the serial number issue, as well as replacing the foam pads in the keyboard.

 

Thanks so much for the help here!


6502: II+, IIe, IIc+, IIgs | 68K: Lisa 2/10, Mac 128K, Mac Plus, SE/30, Mac II, Color Classic, NeXT Cubes ('030 & '040), etc.

PPC: Bondi iMac, Key Lime iBook, G4 Cube, 20" iMac G4, Quicksilver G4, 12" PB G4 1.33, Dual 1.8 G5, etc.


#10 bigmessowires

bigmessowires
  • 68000
  • LocationSan Francisco Bay Area, CA

Posted 20 July 2017 - 04:54 PM

Nice work, it's looking great!



#11 bibilit

bibilit
  • 68000
  • LocationParis area -FRANCE-

Posted 21 July 2017 - 09:57 AM

Nice, never been able to play with Lisa OS, all the Hard drive i have had so far were dead.

 

By The Way, looking a link for Lisa Os (French) all the disks i have are gone bad.


Macintosh Classic and II ,CC, SE, SE/30,IIsi 25mhz(RasterOps video),Q 700,LC, LC III,LC475, PBook Wallstreet/Bronze/5300cs/1400c/100/Tibook Imac G3 slot-in, Bondi and G4 / PMac G4 sawtooth, QS, MDD, Yikes!, Cube, Imac Core 2 Duo, Ibook G3 (white/clam) G4 + Newton 120, eMate 300,Quicktake 150,  PowerCD


#12 fri0701

fri0701
  • 6502

Posted 22 July 2017 - 03:54 PM

Great job! It's always great to see one of these come back to life.



#13 NJRoadfan

NJRoadfan
  • 68000

Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:44 PM

Just keep in mind that the Lisa clock can't be set beyond 1995. Even Apple knew it wasn't going to be on the market that long!






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users