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DayStar Turbo 601 PPC in SE/30 progress?

DayStar 601 PPC SE/30 Turbo

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#1 ktkm

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:20 AM

Is there any progress or late-breaking news regarding this topic?

 

Bw,

Kristian



#2 BadGoldEagle

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:30 AM

I'd love to get my hands on a Turbo 601 and test.

 

From what I've heard, it's possible. But we don't know the exact setup.

I'd say you need a 32 bit clean ROM (IIsi or IIfx) and a twinspark adapter. 

 

And there are different versions of the 601 in existence: 66Mhz and 100Mhz. And the ROM is different. 

 

So many things to take into consideration!

 

EDIT:

Interesting sites:
https://mac68k.info/...pa?threadID=280
http://web.archive.o...1/miscinfo.html


Edited by BadGoldEagle, 20 March 2017 - 10:49 AM.

COOL STUFF: Working original & nearly complete 1984 Macintosh w/ Picasso kit, still looking for a G440 mouse :p, NIB Newton MessagePad from 1993, iMac G3 400MHz DV Graphite

IN THE WORKS: The outstanding SE/30 (50MHz Powercache, Pivot Display Color Graphics) but also non-working 512K Hyperdrive w/ Manuals & Disks, Mac Portable M5126, SE Dual 800k, Classic II, HD40SC, Apple Djinn... I have a lot of restorations going on!


#3 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:16 PM

Interesting stuff about the ROM, patch ROM and host ROM check setup. tt's info about using the IIvx adapter shook something loose in the ole noggin' that might be worth a try:

 

So far I tried it two different ways to use the Turbo 601 in an SE/30 with a IIfx ROM. One way was using the Daystar PowerCache IIsi adapter. The other way was plugging a IIvx adapter into the CPU socket and soldering a new power connector (temporarily) to the back side of the motherboard since the IIvx adapter got in the way. I thought maybe the direct socket plug-in would be the cleanest point of installation.

I heard the Power Mac chime which was exciting, but the screen was just black and I could not tell if anything was happening.

 

My parts drawer with the ROM SIMM versions is MIA ATM, but dougg3's note is in its slot. He sent me a IIvx set to try for the Rocket-in-IIsi hack, saying it didn't boot his IIci. Don't recall, but it probably didn't boot my IIsi and I didn't have an SE/30 to try that at the time. I don't really expect it to work when I do find it. However, the IIvi is 601 compatible and given it's intentional laming by Apple, its ROM is likely a closer match to the SE/30's than that of its faster stablemate. bbraun's info on the chipset (memory controller?) limitations he observed while playing with the 601 will probably come into play. Dunno when that changed, likely at the switchover to 72pin SIMMs. The fact that Apple lamed the controller to disable Cache installation in the IIvi's slot might get its ROM past that part of the hardware check in the SE/30 and the system buses are the same clock rate, IIRC.

 

Based on this unlikely series of WAGs, I'd give the IIvi ROM a try in the SE/30 if I had any interest in this endeavor. No programmer or image available here anyway, so that saves some time! ;)

 

 

edit: hrmmm, was the IIvx adapter the same as the IIvi's, do both plug into the CPU socket of the MoBo? Wondering about the differences between that adapter and the DayStar SE/30 adapter?

 

BTW: this subject matter would probably get a lot more attention if it were kept in hacks where it belongs, 601 upgrades have nothing at all to do with Compact Macs after all. :beige:


Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini, 20 March 2017 - 04:41 PM.

jt [8]
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C.O. AC130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF

#4 ktkm

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:56 PM

I'd love to get my hands on a Turbo 601 and test.

 

From what I've heard, it's possible. But we don't know the exact setup.

I'd say you need a 32 bit clean ROM (IIsi or IIfx) and a twinspark adapter. 

 

And there are different versions of the 601 in existence: 66Mhz and 100Mhz. And the ROM is different. 

 

So many things to take into consideration!

 

EDIT:

Interesting sites:
https://mac68k.info/...pa?threadID=280
http://web.archive.o...1/miscinfo.html

 

Thank you! I’ll start looking in to it!

I’m about to get my hands on a 601, sadly I can’t tell what model it is since the heat sink is blocking all info … I’ll try contacting the seller. It would be nice to se what an adapter looks like -- I have no visual reference on the one.

 

Interesting stuff about the ROM, patch ROM and host ROM check setup. tt's info about using the IIvx adapter shook something loose in the ole noggin' that might be worth a try:

 

 

My parts drawer with the ROM SIMM versions is MIA ATM, but dougg3's note is in its slot. He sent me a IIvx set to try for the Rocket-in-IIsi hack, saying it didn't boot his IIci. Don't recall, but it probably didn't boot my IIsi and I didn't have an SE/30 to try that at the time. I don't really expect it to work when I do find it. However, the IIvi is 601 compatible and given it's intentional laming by Apple, its ROM is likely a closer match to the SE/30's than that of its faster stablemate. bbraun's info on the chipset (memory controller?) limitations he observed while playing with the 601 will probably come into play. Dunno when that changed, likely at the switchover to 72pin SIMMs. The fact that Apple lamed the controller to disable Cache installation in the IIvi's slot might get its ROM past that part of the hardware check in the SE/30 and the system buses are the same clock rate, IIRC.

 

Based on this unlikely series of WAGs, I'd give the IIvi ROM a try in the SE/30 if I had any interest in this endeavor. No programmer or image available here anyway, so that saves some time! ;)

 

 

edit: hrmmm, was the IIvx adapter the same as the IIvi's, do both plug into the CPU socket of the MoBo? Wondering about the differences between that adapter and the DayStar SE/30 adapter?

 

BTW: this subject matter would probably get a lot more attention if it were kept in hacks where it belongs, 601 upgrades have nothing at all to do with Compact Macs after all. :beige:

 

What’s the spec on your 601? And you’re right this topic should probably move -- didn’t know there was so much ROM-fiddling involved  ;)



#5 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:18 PM

Don't have one, don't really care to get one That's why I have only a bit of curiosity about this project. Had a couple of notions about what I figured hadn't been tried yet. dougg3's ROM SIMM wasn't yet available and cross-compatibility of ROMs hadn't been explored past IIsi and IIfx for the SE/30 in SE/30/601 experimentation AFAIK. Just thought I'd pass my silly WAGs along to interested parties for follow up.

 

It's not the ROM fiddling that's the question, it's the platform involved. Anyone with 601 experience is more likely to be in the appropriate/compatible forum discussions for the 601 or in hacks where the topic might not sink into oblivion as quickly. I'd think it would be more fruitful to attract the interest of hackers rather than Compact users in here.


Edited by Trash80toHP_Mini, 20 March 2017 - 09:27 PM.

jt [8]
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#6 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:30 AM

Found my ROM SIMMs and just confirmed the IIvx ROM wonn't boot the SE/30. If a ROM dump from the IIvi is identical to one from the IIvx there's no point in trying it.

 

Couldn't find one for the IIvi, but I did have some time at work to peek at the IIvx DevNote. The SIMMs are still 30pin and the memory mapping unit, a bunch of other discrete controllers and GLU were lumped together into the VASP Integrated Controller. So the IIvx/IIvi ROM might not be all that different from the ROMs that'll boot the SE/30. Dunno, that's way above my pay grade.


jt [8]
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#7 Themk

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:13 AM

Any idea what the latest ROM compatible with the SE/30 is? Seems most SE/30 users are only interested in making their SE/30s 32-bit clean with a IIfx or IIsi ROM, so there probably hasn't been too much exploration.

Macintosh SE SuperDrive, Macintosh SE/30, Apple IIgs ROM3, ImageWriter II.

Love programming for GS/OS and System 6/7.


#8 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:54 PM

What's good enough and works is plenty good enough. Apple went two full years after the release of the IIsi to "update" the Mac II family in October of 1992 with the last of the '030s. Four months later the Quadra 800 was released, killing off the Macintosh II line but for tht new lowend for the product lineup, the Macintosh IIvx/Performa 600, RoadApples slower than the IIci!

 

I'm not at all surprised that the 256K ROM SE/30 can address the 512K ROMs of the IIsi and IIfx, why have an update ready ROM SIMM that's incapable of expansion? Now I'm tempted to tale a look at the schematics. In 1989, Apple may not have thought the SE/30 would ever need a ROM update larger than 512K. Now I'm wondering patch wiring might be the fix needed to allow the SE/30 to address the 1MB ROM of the IIvx?

 

I realized after posting my report that I don't know that the IIvx ROM I just tested in the SE/30 was ever verified as working in a IIvx.

 

Dunno, still curious about the possibilities of updating the SE/30 with a 601 upgrade compatible ROM  .  .  .  and that's getting worse, not better. :-/


jt [8]
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#9 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:38 PM

Couldn't help it, just had to tale a look at the SE/30 schematics and we can scratch the patch. The SE/30 ROM SIMM has A2-A22 implemented, way more than required to address the 1MB ROM of the IIvx. Figured so, but just had to know, now maybe I can let it go.


jt [8]
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball

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#10 ktkm

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:57 PM

Sounds like good news!?



#11 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:30 AM

Not really, likely just a silly idea to begin with. While studying notes in my old threads for taking a another look at one of my hacks, I found links and relevant info in some 2013 posts.

 

If bbraun's right (and he usually is) it's the 4MB ROM on the Turbo601 that's not supporting the SE/30. In that case the question of the ROM in the SE/30 not supporting the Turbo601 isn't what's at issue at all and you're SOL.

 

If a IIvx ROM can somehow be tweaked to boot an SE/30 to begin with and then get that combo to fool the Turbo601 into thinking it's in a IIvx there might be the remotest of possibilities of fulfilling the SE/30/PPC dream  .  .  .

 

.  .  .  but likely not and figuring any bit of that one out is way above my pay grade anyway, so I'm outta here. ;)


jt [8]
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball

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#12 macosten

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:35 PM

If a IIvx ROM can somehow be tweaked to boot an SE/30 to begin with and then get that combo to fool the Turbo601 into thinking it's in a IIvx there might be the remotest of possibilities of fulfilling the SE/30/PPC dream  .  .  .

 

I suppose this means that, in theory, one could try to use a ROM-inator II to get this to work? :O Not like I can do that, but perhaps someone in the world can?


Edited by macosten, 23 March 2017 - 01:36 PM.

Hello, again, again.  :beige:


#13 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:33 PM

Cool, nice to see dougg3's project lives on and that he's collecting residuals from it.

 

That'd be a qualified nope, which was going to be my un-elaborated response:

 

1 / ROM-inator II use for programing additional IIvi and IIvx ROM images for more testing would be the next step though. My single test results are likely accurate, but those results need to be repeated with additional images (IIvi ROM untested) to put the last nail in that particular PPC SE/30 attempt coffin.

 

2 / insert impossible dream ROM hackage here***

 

3 / ROM-inator II would be the tool to use for iterative testing of the many hacked images that will be required in the process of tweaking a IIvx/vi ROM to support the SE/30 in step 2.

 

 

 

 

 

*** not my windmill (pile utter incompetence level atop casual interest in project) and the only one I can think of offhand who might be capable of doing this doesn't think it's possible AFAIK and is on hiatus ATM anyway.


jt [8]
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball

C.O. AC130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF

#14 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:35 PM

Cool, nice to see dougg3's project lives on and that he's collecting residuals from it.

 

That'd be a qualified nope, which was going to be my un-elaborated response:

 

1 / ROM-inator II use for programing additional IIvi and IIvx ROM images for more testing would be the next step though. My single test results are likely accurate, but those results need to be repeated with additional images (IIvi ROM untested) to put the last nail in that particular PPC SE/30 attempt coffin.

 

2 / insert impossible dream ROM hackage here***

 

3 / ROM-inator II would be the tool to use for iterative testing of the many hacked images that will be required in the process of tweaking a IIvx/vi ROM to support the SE/30 in step 2.

 

 

 

 

 

*** not my windmill (pile utter incompetence level atop casual interest in project) and the only one I can think of offhand who might be capable of doing this doesn't think it's possible AFAIK and is on hiatus ATM anyway.


jt [8]
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#15 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted Yesterday, 02:58 PM

We've got a flicker of hope again.

 

Thanks to beddy's thread about foreign ROM SIMM problems in the SE/30 we can toss out my negative result testing the IIvx ROM SIMM in the SE/30. His reported symptoms jibe with my results testing IIvx in SE/30 done under 7.5.5.

 

Mac SE/30 with upgraded ROM

 

Not my hack, but if someone with BMOE's toys wants to play with this crazy notion have at it!  [:)]

 

 

 

BTW: hacks threads really need to be located in hacks. This thread was a PITA to find just now and it hasn't even sunk below the first page in this forum yet.


jt [8]
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball

C.O. AC130H SpecOps 68kMLAAF

#16 ktkm

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Posted Yesterday, 05:04 PM

We've got a flicker of hope again.

 

Thanks to beddy's thread about foreign ROM SIMM problems in the SE/30 we can toss out my negative result testing the IIvx ROM SIMM in the SE/30. His reported symptoms jibe with my results testing IIvx in SE/30 done under 7.5.5.

 

Mac SE/30 with upgraded ROM

 

Not my hack, but if someone with BMOE's toys wants to play with this crazy notion have at it!  [ :)]

 

 

 

BTW: hacks threads really need to be located in hacks. This thread was a PITA to find just now and it hasn't even sunk below the first page in this forum yet.

 

I did a similar mod to my IIcx, thanks to dougg3 here. Too bad I missed my chans buying the 601 this time. But I since I already have the ROM-inator, I’ll buy one as soon as possibly!



#17 Trash80toHP_Mini

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Posted Yesterday, 10:52 PM

Get the programmer for your ROM-inator and give images from the IIvx and IIvi a trybefore getting that 601. ;)


jt [8]
Trash Hauler: call sign: eight-ball

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