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MikeatOSX

PowerBook 1400c and mSATA SSD

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I'm owning several PowerBooks 1400c and cs - two of them with G3 processor cards.

All of them operate very well and fast with IDE/CF adapters and fast CF cards.

Just for fun I wanted to try several mSATA SSDs with two different IDE/mSATA adapters (deLock and noName) which worked in different PowerBooks and formatted them with USB/IDE adapters on a Pismo (Tiger) with Mac OS extended.

 

I could only get one single pair to boot in a PB 1400c, but very slow with extensions disabled.

Other pairs (adapter+mSATA) were not even recognized by formatting software:

patched drive setup, Silverlining, HDT...

 

In this forum I've read, that there is a "quirk" in the ROM of the PB 1400.

As I'm interested like a bloodhound, my question is:

Did anybody get a mSATA SSD to work with a PowerBook 1400?

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Ok,

I found this one year old thread:

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/25210-powerbook-3400c-solid-state-drive/

So I think this problem is still not solved.

 

But it's interesting, that IDE/CF adapters work pretty well in old PowerBooks including SCSI with PowerMonster II, which I installed recently in a PB 540c. :)

 

BTW:

my "delock" mSATA/IDE adapter is the same, which ianj successfully used to install a mSATA SSD in his PowerBook 2400c - in this thread:

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/18290-mac-os-9-ssds/

which I also plan to do with my PB 2400c.

Edited by MikeatOSX

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I too am interested in this.  The CF solution is great and I wonder if better performance would come of MSATA drives.  Both my PB1400's have CF IDE solutions now

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Same here. I tried an SD->CF Adapter and then to a CF->IDE Adapter and it failed miserably, so I never posted it.

 

What should work in theory does not always work in practice.... damn.

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PowerBook 1400 mSATA Test done!

 

The bad news: none of my mSATA SSDs (Crucial, Samsung, InnoDisk) worked properly with my PowerBook 1400c.

Using these adapters:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391415415261

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401045785062

 

The good news: I found one SSD, which is fast and useful for the PowerBook 1400, although it's not so fast as mSATA:

KingSpec PATA II 8GB SSD 2-channel (KSD-PA18.6-008MS)

http://amzn.com/B00HWOYY72

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311292037852

 

How I did it:

Earlier I always used a mSATA / IDE / USB adapter to format new mSATA SSDs first on my current intel Mac - to see, if there are any errors.

Next I formatted them on my Pismo in OS X 10.4, as I could not format them in Mac OS 9.2.2: Drive Setup did never recognize mSATAs via USB adapter. :(

 

So I tried a different way this time:

a Wallstreet with Mac OS 8.6 is a good machine for testing,

as internal HDDs can very easy and fast be swapped without moving out the processor card

Wallstreets can boot with Compact Flash cards in a PCMCIA slot

 

So I installed my mSATA disks one after another in the Wallstreet (250MHz), booted with CF-card and started Drive Setup 1.7.3 Patched.

 

In the Drive Setup window I saw something, which was new for me:

<additional unrecognized partitions>.

Was this the reason, my PowerBook 1400 did not recognize my mSATAs before? No it wasn't.

 

So I formatted and partitionized all mSATAs without any problems and copied all files from the existing Mac OS 8.6 and 9.1 CF card partitions to partitions of the new SSDs.

All boot tests with mSATA SSDs in my Wallstreet were sucessful: booting was much faster than with CF/IDE adapter before.

 

So it was time to test the mSATAs in my PowerBook 1400c (with G3/250MHz booster card and max RAM).

Disappointing results: it was a pain in the *** to get the PowerBook to boot (with extensions off only), so slow it was. None of the mSATAs worked properly. :(

So I'll have to test them on younger PowerBooks (2400c, 3400c, Kanga). Let's see...

 

I now gave the KingSpec PATA II SSD a trial and the PowerBook 1400c booted immediately and I didn't find any errors with it.

The boot time seems to be slightly faster than with the Sandisk Extreme III (30MB/s) before.

 

So I'm satisfied at this time and will test a PowerBook 3400c with mSATA soon.

 

BTW: mSATAs SSDs in my Lombard, Pismos and Power Mac G4 Cube are booting extremely fast and delightfully. :)

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Edited by MikeatOSX

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PowerBook 1400 mSATA Test done!

 

The bad news: none of my mSATA SSDs (Crucial, Samsung, InnoDisk) worked properly with my PowerBook 1400c.

Using these adapters:

ebay itm 391415415261

ebay itm 401045785062

Your 'MSATA TO IDE INPUT M811' (391415415261) contains JMicron JM20330. Your DeLOCK (401045785062) is LyCOM ST-173, contains Marvell 88SA8052. Marvel's 88SA8052 bridge chip is newer JM20330, and seems to be more compatible (generally, not always) than JM20330 in hacks/mods/retrofits. However, 88SA8052 is not perfect. I am convinced no ATA-ATA bridge is perfect, and a perfect transparent ATA-ATA bridge is not possible.

 

The good news: I found one SSD, which is fast and useful for the PowerBook 1400, although it's not so fast as mSATA:

KingSpec PATA II 8GB SSD 2-channel (KSD-PA18.6-008MS)

The KingSpec PATA SSD is little more than guts of CompactFlash card in differently-shaped body. It contains same Silicon Motion controller as found in CompactFlash cards. The KingSpec PATA SSD is not an ideal solution for all computers, because it uses drive address selection jumper positions which are different from de-facto position assignment. Although position assignment is not part of PATA standard/specification (jumper position assignment is left up to implementors), almost all HDDs (and host systems) use one common assignment. I do not know "who did it first", but the best-documented implementor seems to be IBM (HGST). As can be seen in your photos, PowerBook 1400 does not use those drive address selector pins (forty-seven through fifty).

Edited by butterburger

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Marvel's 88SA8052 bridge chip is newer JM20330, and seems to be more compatible (generally, not always) than JM20330 in hacks/mods/retrofits.

Maybe that's the reason for my next test with PowerBook 3400c this time:

 

The noName Adapter + 4GB mSATA SSD did not work in PowerBook 3400c (in PowerBook G3 Wallstreet everything was ok).

I had to boot with an PCMCIA CF-card to test this mSATA with First Aid. :(

On the other side the DeLock adapter + 16GB Samsung mSATA works like a charm and so it'll stay in my PB 3400c.

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My next test: PowerBook G3 (Original / Kanga / 3500)

As expected: same results as with PowerBook 3400c.

NoName adapter did not work: when booting "Happy (!) Mac" appears and that‘s all, in "Disk First Aid" same errors.

No problem with the more expensive DeLock adapter.

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Repeated test - with pictures: PowerBook G3 series (Wallstreet, PDQ).

BOTH adapters are working very well, that's it. 

 

BTW: big silence in this sub-forum in these days. ;)

 

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I now gave the KingSpec PATA II SSD a trial and the PowerBook 1400c booted immediately and I didn't find any errors with it.

The boot time seems to be slightly faster than with the Sandisk Extreme III (30MB/s) before.

 

So I'm satisfied at this time and will test a PowerBook 3400c with mSATA soon.

 

Depending on its size, the KingSpec PATA II series is 45 - 90 MB/sec; the larger the drive, the faster it is. Don't know why that is that they gave the higher rate to the larger space drives. I have a couple of 16GB PATA II in the G3 Wallstreets and 1 in a G3 iBook - yes they are wickedly fast. One 32GB PATA II I have in a PowerBook and I think it's reaches its limit. I would like  a 128GB PATA II Series in my PowerBooks and iBooks, one day... when I get the money...

 

But I'm not surprised that you succeeded with 1400 and the PATA II. Thumbs up!

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From my experience I have made CF->IDE and IDE SSDs work on the PB 190 and 5300 to the G4 iBook and PowerBook. I also made it work on the G4 towers but that is it. I do not know about the 2300 though it should work. Its the PB150 that might have problems though Bunsen's comment seems to support that it will work:

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/26798-cf-as-a-hd/page-2&do=findComment&comment=293868

Edited by Elfen

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I do not know about the 2300 though it should work. Its the PB150 that might have problems though Bunsen's comment seems to support that it will work:

Yes, it worked for me too on my 2 PowerBooks 150.

Here are some pictures of my PowerBook - CF adapter adventures, which were all successful. Later I swapped some of them with faster CF-cards:

 

PowerBook 150

PowerBook 540c
PowerBook 5300/190
PowerBook Duo 2300c
PowerBook 1400c
PowerBook 3400c
PowerBook G3 Kanga
PowerBook G3 Wallstreet
PowerBook G3 Lombard
 
Two PowerBooks 2400c are booting through PCMCIA CF-adapters,  I still don't have the courage to open them... ;)

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Just tried an iPod Mini 4Gb Microdrive on a PB 5300c. Installed on a IDE-CF adapter.

Partitioned in two, one Syst 7.6.1 and one MacOS 8.1.  Works like a charm.

Think I'll leave it in there.

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Ok, here the picts ,

Hitachi 4Gb MicroDrive :

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here installed in the 5300c HD case with the IDE-CF adapter and that magic black tape I use for everything :

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And here the 5300c:

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I also used a 4Gb MicroDrive in a HD expansion bay for a PDQ 300Mhz :

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This particular machine as 4 systems, Mac OS 8.6 and Debian Wheezy on the internal 12Gb HD, and Mac OS 9.0.4 and Rhapsody 5.6 on the MicroDrive in the expansion bay . Here only the Debian partition is not visible in the System Disk utility :

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Edited by galgot

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PowerBook 1400 DOM (Disk on Module) test

 
Question: Can a DOM be used in a PowerBook 1400?
Short answer: YES
 
A DOM is a flash drive with either 40/44-pin PATA or SATA interface with female connector for direct connection to the motherboard.
BTW: I didn't see a 44-pin DOM yet.
 
I recently got a 64GB Kingspec DOM as a gift and so I figured out, how to use it with a PowerBook.
I needed a 2.5" 44-pin IDE Hard Drive Female to 3.5" 40-pin IDE Hard Drive Male adapter and an IDE 44-pin Male to 44-pin Male adapter, shortened the power cables and soldered them together.
Ready!
 
First test in PowerBook G3 Wallstreet: working & fitting
Second test in PowerBook 1400c: same here - Disk First Aid reports "OK".
 
I also did a boot speed test: DOM versus SanDisk Extreme III Compact Flash card (30MB/s).
The DOM is only about 3 seconds slower when booting Mac OS 8.6 with extensions on.
In the end I moved the DOM out of the PowerBook, as 64GB ist really too much for this darling. ;)
 

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I bet, KingSpec's DOM is not any more 'industrial' than their other product formfactors. I highly doubt the KingSpec would last any longer than the SanDisk CompactFlash.

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I can vouch for the SanDisk Extreme III and IV Compact Flash in terms of write endurance. Before using a 2GB Extreme IV as a boot disk in a vintage laptop, I connected it in place of my optical drive in my Quicksilver G4. I ran dd on it for a couple days and over 3TB of writes later, it was still behaving nicely. Talk about a torture test! I haven't put an Extreme III through the same punishment, but an 8GB unit has been running my OS 8.6/10.2 292MHz Wallstreet flawlessly for quite some time.

Edited by rsolberg

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As an update to this thread, I had some issues selecting the correct IDE to CF adapter and compact flash card to get this working on my PowerBook 1400.  After much trial and error I got it to work.  Documented the exact configuration I used on my site so it's easy for others to find.  The big take away point is to use an **industrial** compact flash card.  I didn't have luck with others.

 

IDE to CF Adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EQVTYO2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

CF Card: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014H4GQJS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Full Post - http://www.marmanold.com/retro/booting-a-powerbook-1400-from-compact-flash/

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I am looking for a SCSI2CF or SCSI2SD card solution for my Color Classic.  Recommendations welcome.....

 

mraroid

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