SCSI ZIp Drive
Posted 06 October 2007 - 06:40 PM
Posted 06 October 2007 - 08:01 PM
Posted 06 October 2007 - 08:09 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but I would much prefer a ZIP drive inside a SCSI capable Mac rather than a hard drive to make it quieter and would require only minor modification to the SE case in order to insert the ZIP disks. In the case of the SE, my understanding is that analogue board is much sturdier than the Plus board in terms of heat resistance. I wonder if without the hard drive you could turn off the fan, or at least put it on a temperature controlled switch and the existing ventilation would be mostly adequate.
Not to foster your unintended hijacking, but that's not a half-bad idea.
Posted 06 October 2007 - 08:42 PM
Posted 06 October 2007 - 09:01 PM
Non apple: Amiga 600HD, Commodore 64c, BBC Master 128
Posted 07 October 2007 - 12:20 AM
Posted 07 October 2007 - 09:32 PM
Posted 07 October 2007 - 11:07 PM
Also, I think you are doing what I have been describing on my site and above. In my case I boot up with 6.0.4 on a single 800K floppy with the Iomega 4.2 INIT, format a ZIP 100 disk and then I can install ANY system on it. The Mac will boot up from the ZIP 100 disk running any system from .97/Finder 1.0 up and DOES NOT NEED the Iomega 4.2 INIT in the system. This works on a 512Ke & Plus. As I speculated earlier I think the volume information is encoded on the disk and the Mac simply reads it and recognizes it, which may be why you can use 800K MFS disks with 64K ROMs. You can erase data on such disks, but not format new ones (well I haven't tried to format a new ZIP 100 while booted up from one, but I'll let you know). So I would assume the same to be true with the 250MB Zip, at least you should be able to use 4.2 INIT formated ZIP 100s in it and have them be recognized.
Posted 08 October 2007 - 12:35 AM
Posted 08 October 2007 - 08:49 PM
Charlieman, I'm not sure I followed ... you say you got the system to recognize an entire 250MB Zip disk with your modified INIT? Or just as a 100MB disk?
The procedures above work for me with the following:
100MB cartridge in 100MB drive
250MB cartridge in 250MB drive
100MB cartridge in 250MB drive
Also, I think you are doing what I have been describing on my site and above.
Very similar. However, I am using pre-used cartridges that have various media drivers on them. The low level format is essential to remove any evidence of that driver. Otherwise we end up with the well reported problem with Pluses being unable to use or format cartridges that have been "updated" with a later media driver.
The Iomega INIT is *definitely* not required when booting from a Zip cartridge. The INIT manages cartridge ejection and remounts, which are not sensible features when you are using the Zip as your main hard disk! If you boot from a Zip cartridge with the Iomega INIT in the System Folder, it is disabled anyway.
When booting from a hard disk or floppy disk, and then wishing to use an Iomega Zip drive, conventional wisdom is that you require the Iomega driver for formatting and mounting. As I will verify below, this is *not true*.
I repeated my previous formatting experiments *without* an Iomega INIT using the same third party formatter. Low level formats succeeded but an error was reported during the initialisation stage. After a reboot, the Plus recognised that there was a cartridge in the drive, and offered to initialise it. (Note that this is an extra stage when compared to the same procedure *with* the Iomega INIT.) After the second initialisation stage, I copied the System Folder and successfully booted.
I also tested booting from a hard disk and ejecting/remounting a Zip cartridge that had been formatted *without* the Iomega INIT. Everything worked fine, confirming that the third party formatter had installed a decent media level driver that identifies a Zip cartridge as removeable media.
Additionally, I took a formatted, booting Zip 100 cartridge and inserted it in a PowerMac running OS 9.1 with a later Iomega Zip extension (version 6.06). For the sake of it, I copied a few files onto the cartridge. I then tried to boot from the cartridge in a Plus, but the System Folder had been clobbered by OS 9.1, so it was no longer bootable. I reblessed the System Folder and it booted again.
My conclusion is that the Iomega INIT is not required during formatting on a Plus, but may be helpful to my third party formatter (Anubis). This obviously need testing with other formatters. One more test to do, unless anyone has any bright ideas...
Posted 09 October 2007 - 08:50 PM
Posted 10 October 2007 - 04:02 PM
However, I am using pre-used cartridges that have various media drivers on them. The low level format is essential to remove any evidence of that driver. Otherwise we end up with the well reported problem with Pluses being unable to use or format cartridges that have been "updated" with a later media driver.
Yes I was using recent PC formatted cartridges, so they were not recognized by the Mac without the Iomega Init in the System folder, but were easily re-formatted with Iomega's 4.2 Zip Tools under System 6.
As for the updated driver problem, I thought the main issue was having to reformat the disk with the 4.2 driver Tools, meaning back it up and re-initialize, a real pain either way. All of my old Zip disks were updated to newer drivers at some point back in the day before I knew about this problem. However, I have since successfully restored all of them to bootable 4.2 drivers using the 4.2 Zip Tools alone (under OS 8.6 no less).
Also, I presume you formatted the Zip 250 disk with a third party utility and not the Zip tools which would require System 7 and likely not be recognized by the Plus?
This may be of some help with third party formatters from Michael Peters's defunct website:
This app uses the SIOUX console library
Choose 'Quit' from the file menu to quit.
Use fake disk names (/dev/scsi
Top level command (? for help): l /dev/scsi0.5
finding devices .......
Partition map (with 512 byte blocks) on '/dev/scsi0.5' (/dev/sdb)
#: type name length base ( size )
1: Apple_partition_map 80 @ 1
2: Iomega_DiskInfo 10 @ 81
3: Apple_Driver* 400 @ 91
4: Apple_HFS 196106 @ 491 ( 95.8M)
5: Iomega_backup 1 @ 196597
6: Iomega_DiskInfo 10 @ 196598
Device block size=512, Number of Blocks=196608 (96.0M)
1: @ 91 for 4, type=0x1
Top level command (? for help):
Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:17 PM
Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:23 PM
Anyone know why my Zip 100 with System 7.5.5 installed boots up my SE no problem, but not my Mac Plus? The Mac Plus powers on. For a second I get a smily face, but it then turns to a question mark after a few seconds. I have the Iomega 4.2 INIT in the system folder, but I thought you didn't need any INITs to boot a SCSI device.
The Zip drive itself has to have the 4.2 driver formatted on it (i.e. not in the System folder which does not need it to boot). Depending on what Zip INIT you are using on the SE System, or other Macs, there was a nasty habit of the ZIP INIT updating the ZIP disk without asking if the INIT was newer than that installed on the disk.
You could also have termination issues. I believe the Mac Plus does not provide termination power but the SE does.
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