Connecting 68k Macs to LCD Monitors
Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:58 PM
You'd think that 640x480@60Hz, separate sync, would work with just about any monitor, but it seems to not always be the case. My Quadra 605 and my Power Mac 6100 are the worst behaved, in that regard.
Any advice or pointers are welcome.
Posted 24 April 2012 - 03:55 PM
Most LCDs sync at only 60Hz, a common VGA, SVGA & XGA sync rate considered flickery in the world of Big CRTs for Graphics and the Mac community in general when the standards were fluid. In the new world of LCDs, it's a different story. Some are Multi-Res to a point and some of the older ones are stellar in this regard.
Quite a bit of backup info on this is available, including a breakdown of the finicky nature of Modern Multi-Res LCDs, in these threads:
IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card related threads:
UNDERClocking a Video Card??????
Get yourself a KDS/Radius Rad-5 LCD, of one variety or other of the many styles available, and you'll be able to do just about any Mac Fixed Res, or VGA/SVGA setting up to 1024 x 768 just fine.
The KDS/RadiusKDS K715s 17" COLOR LCD MONITOR was just PayPal'd for, so I'm hoping it'll do the larger 1152 x whatever Mac TPD resolutions as well when it arrives.
I'll be posting a conquest thread about my KDS/Radius collection when the 17" one gets here and a peripherals review of them all when I get the chance.
There's a big honking 19" version, that's been listed here and there, that was not quite fugly enough not to tempt me, but it has the same native res as the more elegant 17 incher I just snagged.
Three are on the way and two are already here, but one needs work. The original dark gray one is a gem. I've got one with the gray speakers and a black one without that are already in transit.
Posted 24 April 2012 - 04:41 PM
I'll start looking for a KDS/Radius LCD, though. Personal experience is definitely helpful, in this case. Much more, it seems, than the monitor specifications.
I'd love to find a VGA-to-VGA scan converter, though. That would handle all cases. The good ones seem to be pretty expensive, though. And, some, I can't find a price on, at all, like this one, which definitely supports Mac modes/frequencies: http://www.gomax-ele... ... p?show=138.
Posted 24 April 2012 - 04:48 PM
Again . . . as always . . . Radius ROCKED!!!!!!
. . . even in its death throes.
Posted 24 April 2012 - 10:34 PM
See the table of resolutions near the bottom.
The T84H is similar but lacks two of the 1280 X 1024 frequencies. However, it has a DVI port, which is admittedly, not very useful in 68K Macs, but is nice if you want to have a modern computer and a legacy computer connected at the same time.
The page for the T85A claims that
Detachable, tilt/swivel base that can be replaced by third-party accessories meeting the VESA Flat Panel Monitor Physical Mounting Interface Standard (FPMPMI) for a range of alternate mounting solutions
But if that thing's back meets the VESA mounting standard, it must be some part of the standard which no-one else ever used.
I built these brackets
so that I could mount the thing on a wall mount. More images here:
If you get a T85A somewhere you can have a mounting bracket for the cost of shipping. For reasons, I built 20 of the brackets, but I only have five of the panels. I did manage to sell one bracket on Ebay to (IIRC) a guy in Brazil many years ago.
Oh, look. You can get 100 of the later T860 model (fewer resolutions supported)
for $2500 if you're in or near Connecticut:
Posted 24 April 2012 - 11:20 PM
http://h18004.www1.h... ... 4_div.html
I'll have to see if I can get my current 8- or 10- switch adapters set to one of those resolutions. I can't seem to find a source for the Enhance Liberty adapters that he mentioned in the linked posts. Neither of my current adapters (Curtis and Viewsonic) have dials, but claim similar number of resolution/refresh rate combos as supported.
Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:19 AM
Video Adapter Docs Scan Dump
. . . the MacVDO Docs make a great primer on the subject.
I recommend anything Radius, they pretty much developed Mac Video that went beyond the 9" Periscope in their role as Apple's principle OEM.
Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:51 PM
The only Mac mode I can't use with it is... the 60 Hz RGB 12" mode (512 x 384)
Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:03 PM
I think the best option would be buying a 20" LCD on a native 1600x1200 resolution, because the 1:1 pixel ratio with 800x600 makes it nearly perfect.. Anyone have any experience with that?
It may be a bit more expensive and big though, you can't really use it for what's worth..
Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:04 AM
Vintage Macs have no "panoramic" modes, thus the best one for my Acer is 1024x768, which only has to be interpolated horizontally, while the vertical resolution matches the panel's resolution (768 lines). Unfortunately, this wasn't a classic Mac resolution, which went from 832x624 (16") to 1152x870 (21") -- both supported at 75 Hz by my Acer, but far from ideal sharpness. More recent machines (Quadra 700, LC475...) with a suitable adapter do support 1024x769 (aka 19")
Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:14 AM
The only standard Mac resolution that it won't do is 640x480@66Hz.
Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:12 PM
I also have an eMachines 19" widescreen that I picked up cheap last year, I got a nice surprise when I read the documentation (after buying it) and discovered that actually supports the vintage Apple oddball resolutions, such as 832x624 and 1152x870! And it puts black bars on the sides of the image rather than stretching it out. I never thought I'd find myself saying good things about an Acer/eMachines product, but well - there you go.
For what its worth, I have no idea as to model numbers and can't get them, all this stuff is at my parents' place, which is interstate.
Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:33 PM
I've also seen 'hacks' like multi-resolutions.hqx where you could set a resolution yourself, but I don't know if this works on 68k machines. The source code was gives to a few people over at system7today (so it may be recompilable to 68k? If it's not too much ASM in it), but nobody have posted in the project thread for about 4 years now..
I don't know, but maybe the multi-resolutions extension can force it do to 1024x768 well.. or make it wide screen..
Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:38 PM
Ability for a video card to work with a monitor (assuming that it accepts analog input) is based on the following:
* Sync on green is weird, but it is the standard for some built-in Mac graphics cards. Work around it using an adapter that converts sync on green into something more acceptable, or use a different graphics card.
* Other sync methods have their own quirks.
* The video card needs to work with 60Hz at 640 * 480. 60Hz was the resolution for the first VGA monitors and cards, but most IBM clone manufacturers whacked it up to 70Hz for ergonomic reasons. However 60Hz is the baseline and everything should work.
* The video card needs to work with 60Hz at any resolution or some resolutions. Third party cards are more likely to achieve this than built-in graphics.
* Mac 15 pin video --> VGA 15 pin cable adapters behave differently. Collect different ones and record the switch settings for future reference.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:59 PM
i bought this back in the fall when it was 49 bucks, from microcenter.
looks like they are 64 bucks now,
its a great monitor, it will handle anything i throw at it!
LCI/II/III q605 / Mac IIsi / PM 6100 / 7500/100
i have a vga to db-15 adaptor with dip switches,
the IIsi will only work with the first dip setting on for 640x480,
the rest will multi sync with the second to last dip set to on.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:18 PM
Even switched converters have their own quirks, while the switchless variety are mostly for PowerMacs, being from the MultiSync Ubiquity Era. That's a guess based upon what I've experienced in passing. I haven't read up on or tested this hypothesis.
IIfx couldn't get anything out of the Apple 24 AC Card that I sent him as part of a trade, other than baseline 640 x 480 until he bought a different adapter. Now it zooms along at all kinds of resolutions like mine do.
Posted 31 May 2012 - 03:32 PM
But the funniest part was Multi-sync support: there were some extended codes for them, but the "regular" code supplied by these monitors was not 7, but 6 -- incidentally, the same as baseline 640x40 @ 66 Hz (aka 13"). Even if not supported by some certain card-OS combos, these MS monitors would work at least at that base resolution. Great!
All PPCs supported multi-sync monitors, of course; but some 68k too -- the Quadra 700, for instance. Not with any System Software, anyway.
Somewhat tangentially, I believe Apple went off from mainstream/industry standards because their "propietary" systems were easier to use: remember the fuzz of IRQ and DMA of ISA cards, compared to the (unusal back then) Plug-n-Play NuBus... even the much debated SCSI vs. IDE question has more to do with this, rather than actual performance -- which wasn't that great on Apple's DMA-less SCSI implementation I remember seeing a friend's PC (I never had such thing :b&w: ) where the number of sectors/heads/cylinders had to be set manually on the BIOS And "they" had no possibilty of external HDs until the advent of USB, and then so at the sluggish 1.1 speeds... But as soon as Logical Block Addressing à la SCSI became common on IDE disks, Apple started using them for our convenience (and their profit)
Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:56 PM
T I remember seeing a friend's PC (I never had such thing :b&w: ) where the number of sectors/heads/cylinders had to be set manually on the BIOS And "they" had no possibilty of external HDs until the advent of USB, and then so at the sluggish 1.1 speeds... But as soon as Logical Block Addressing à la SCSI became common on IDE disks, Apple started using them for our convenience (and their profit)
Oh, yes. Into the Pentium era (I think some were auto-detecting by this time), if you wanted to install a new hard drive, you better copy down the sectors/heads/cylinder numbers written on the drive before putting it in the machine. Then configure the BIOS at start up so it would recognize the drive. Then run DOS so you could run Fdisk to partition the disk and then initialize it and assign it a fixed drive letter. Woe unto you if you were in a network environment in which networked volumes started at F: and you had a more than three hard drive devices (two hard drives and one optical drive, e.g.).
The differences were compelling in those days, unlike now, where I often prefer to use my Windows XP laptop over using my OSX desktop machine. I can't really see an ease of use advantage in one over the other. In OSX Apple made everything just as much of a pain in the posterior as it is in Windows.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users