So, now its time to open the thread for this project.
For those of us that are less-fortunate to have a working SCSI HDD, and for those who DO have them and are failing, have failed, (like me). this thread is for you too.
I am in the process of routing the PCB. Problem now lies in the actual SCSI connector. the WDS-280 has a 48 pin AMP connector.
40 of those pins are for the SCSI interface, the other 8 are for the SCSI ID, Busy LED, and other odds/ends.
Now, the dilemma: Does anyone have the AMP part #, or possibly the solder pitch/spacing/dimensions for the AMP connector?
I cant route the SCSI connection without this, so i cannot finish this design.
Any contributions or help will be appreciated.
2.5" SCSI SSD Project
Started by
techknight
, Feb 19 2011 11:57 PM
189 replies to this topic
#1
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 19 February 2011 - 11:57 PM
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#2
superpantoufle
-
- 6502
- LocationYvonand, Switzerland
Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:26 AM
Hi techknight, and thanks a lot for that project. I followed the beginning of the discussion in the other thread, and I'm very interested in it! I won't be of any help for technical stuff, though. But if and when the project leads to a product, I'll have a bunch of early PowerBooks with failing drives that'll happily discover the pleasures of SSD! And my compacts as well!
I've been searching for a SCSI-SSD solution for a couple of months. The best starting point I found is in our wiki. But of all the solutions listed, only the Acard is still manufactured ansd sold new, but so expensive it's no more an option, at least for me. One can still find plenty of references on online fora about getting those for about $20 each a couple of years ago, now the easily go for $150.
I thought I'd point you to that thread I found during my searches, with a similar effort going on.
I've been searching for a SCSI-SSD solution for a couple of months. The best starting point I found is in our wiki. But of all the solutions listed, only the Acard is still manufactured ansd sold new, but so expensive it's no more an option, at least for me. One can still find plenty of references on online fora about getting those for about $20 each a couple of years ago, now the easily go for $150.
I thought I'd point you to that thread I found during my searches, with a similar effort going on.
From a Macintosh SE to a MacBook Pro 13'' (late 2009). 23 years of (insanely great) addiction, and counting.
Pomme-S.ch :: my collection hosted on a PowerBook 145B.
Takalyde.ch :: Indie-rock from Switzerland
Pomme-S.ch :: my collection hosted on a PowerBook 145B.
Takalyde.ch :: Indie-rock from Switzerland
#3
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 21 February 2011 - 01:54 AM
Theres only one difference. "My Effort" is going to follow through. Why? because it has to. i have no working SCSI HDD and id rather spend $150 into a project that would be worthwhile, and I have some control of.
As long as i have you guys for collaboration, i need to get data for certain things.
Looks like im gonna have to buy a set of calipers. sheesh.
As long as i have you guys for collaboration, i need to get data for certain things.
Looks like im gonna have to buy a set of calipers. sheesh.
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#4
Trash80toHP_Mini
-
- 68040
-
NIGHT STALKER
- LocationBermuda Triangle, NC, USA
Posted 21 February 2011 - 02:19 AM
I've been poking around in the Magic Boxen for some 8-10 year old AMP catalogs . . . no joy so far . . . but "I have not yet begun to fight!" 
Can you post piccies of the half of the connector pair that you have or of the side that you're actually looking for?
Can you post piccies of the half of the connector pair that you have or of the side that you're actually looking for?
![[8]](https://68kmla.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/icon_smile_8ball.gif){kind=icon}
™
#5
CJ_Miller
-
- 6502
- Locationno
Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:37 AM
Weird, I typed a reply earlier, but it vanished.
They are just standard 2mm pin headers, aka .079", 50-pin, I am guessing you'd want a right-angle variety. Not to dissuade you from pursuing AMP, but here is a page of similar things.
http://www.mouser.co...og/630/1124.pdf
They are just standard 2mm pin headers, aka .079", 50-pin, I am guessing you'd want a right-angle variety. Not to dissuade you from pursuing AMP, but here is a page of similar things.
http://www.mouser.co...og/630/1124.pdf
#7
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 22 February 2011 - 03:51 AM
Ok, thanks for the tips guys. GREATLY appreciated.
So far, here is progress day period 1:
This is a routing NIGHTMARE..... I may have to do 2 boards. I am running out of room quickly. Probably going to have to make a 2-board sandwich, and just stack them together with interconnecting header pins.
Was trying to avoid this. I still need to route the MCU and transceivers that sit on the SCSI bus.
But this is a picture of the Compact Flash MCU routing nearly complete.
So far, here is progress day period 1:
This is a routing NIGHTMARE..... I may have to do 2 boards. I am running out of room quickly. Probably going to have to make a 2-board sandwich, and just stack them together with interconnecting header pins.
Was trying to avoid this. I still need to route the MCU and transceivers that sit on the SCSI bus.
But this is a picture of the Compact Flash MCU routing nearly complete.
Attached Thumbnails
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#8
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 22 February 2011 - 03:57 AM
I've been poking around in the Magic Boxen for some 8-10 year old AMP catalogs . . . no joy so far . . . but "I have not yet begun to fight!"
Can you post piccies of the half of the connector pair that you have or of the side that you're actually looking for?
Basically, I am trying to find a datasheet/measurement chart for the connector thats on the back of the old time SCSI 2.5 HDDs, or at least a source for new ones + datasheet.
Otherwise, how in tarnations are you going to connect it to the powerbook SCSI ribbon?
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#9
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 22 February 2011 - 05:29 AM
Got a little bit more routing and parts adding done tonight before i head off to bed.
Day 1, part 2:
Day 1, part 2:
Attached Thumbnails
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#10
Trash80toHP_Mini
-
- 68040
-
NIGHT STALKER
- LocationBermuda Triangle, NC, USA
Posted 23 February 2011 - 02:29 AM
I've got Digital Calipers, so I'll check out an old drive.
IIRC, they're standard .05" O.C. Headers, the same as on a PC Card . . .
. . . but sometimes IDRC!
IIRC, they're standard .05" O.C. Headers, the same as on a PC Card . . .
. . . but sometimes IDRC!
#11
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:51 AM
Yes, i think so too. But i am not sure the solder-pin-pad length, width, and spacing that mounts onto the board. Because i have to make a solder zone to mount the header pins. i need those dimensions in MM not mils.
Also, I have done a little bit more routing today, finished the CompactFlash card side. YAHOOO.... and started routing in the SCSI interface MCU.
If someone can find a modern connector with the specs of the old connector, that would be a better route to go, than scrapping them off of old dead SCSI drives.
Also, I have done a little bit more routing today, finished the CompactFlash card side. YAHOOO.... and started routing in the SCSI interface MCU.
If someone can find a modern connector with the specs of the old connector, that would be a better route to go, than scrapping them off of old dead SCSI drives.
Attached Thumbnails
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#12
CJ_Miller
-
- 6502
- Locationno
Posted 23 February 2011 - 12:17 PM
They are really not a specialized part!
If you really need to know the exact dimensions, just find somebody who makes 2MM right-angle, 50-pin headers, and get their data sheet which has the exact measurements. Then you either find a part in your CAD library, or make a template yourself, which for two evenly spaced rows of 25 pins is not difficult. Based on the pin spacing and layout you can then choose a trace width which you are comfortable with and can have fabricated.
Example - I am going to run with the 3M part I linked to before, just because it is the first one I found in the five minutes or so I looked. I am not endorsing 3M, I am sure there are dozens of companies who make these headers.
http://multimedia.3m... ... 6E666666--
Scroll to page three, and there are your specifications. This is standard, the only other thing you need to watch out for is pin length, but this doesn't come into play with your layout yet.
I am surprised that you folks are fussing over it so much. I am a circuit layout n00b and designing and laying out a SCSI circuit is completely beyond me. But the dimensions of the connector are quite tangible. This weekend I actually happened to find a barely-used SCSI drive in my basement which a friend had given to me from his short-lived PowerBook. I thought I had lost it years ago! It is an Apple branded Connor CP2045, 40 MB. The connector is a standard, unmarked 50-pin right angle header, 2MM variety. I have some 2.5" SCSI-IDE bridges, and their connectors are the same. Hope this helps!
If you really need to know the exact dimensions, just find somebody who makes 2MM right-angle, 50-pin headers, and get their data sheet which has the exact measurements. Then you either find a part in your CAD library, or make a template yourself, which for two evenly spaced rows of 25 pins is not difficult. Based on the pin spacing and layout you can then choose a trace width which you are comfortable with and can have fabricated.
Example - I am going to run with the 3M part I linked to before, just because it is the first one I found in the five minutes or so I looked. I am not endorsing 3M, I am sure there are dozens of companies who make these headers.
http://multimedia.3m... ... 6E666666--
Scroll to page three, and there are your specifications. This is standard, the only other thing you need to watch out for is pin length, but this doesn't come into play with your layout yet.
I am surprised that you folks are fussing over it so much. I am a circuit layout n00b and designing and laying out a SCSI circuit is completely beyond me. But the dimensions of the connector are quite tangible. This weekend I actually happened to find a barely-used SCSI drive in my basement which a friend had given to me from his short-lived PowerBook. I thought I had lost it years ago! It is an Apple branded Connor CP2045, 40 MB. The connector is a standard, unmarked 50-pin right angle header, 2MM variety. I have some 2.5" SCSI-IDE bridges, and their connectors are the same. Hope this helps!
#13
register
-
- 6502
Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:19 PM
Pardon, I probably missed something in this thread. Could you please drop a line about the goal of the project or a link to the previous thread? Is it about designing a SCSI SSD from scratch or just about interfacing an existing storage device?
Did someone recently ask for availability of CF Powermonster at http://www.artmix.com? This device is the SSD solution with the lowest list price I know (about USD 100 + shipping + any CF card). The performance is quite reasonable for any PowerBook with internal SCSI.
Did someone recently ask for availability of CF Powermonster at http://www.artmix.com? This device is the SSD solution with the lowest list price I know (about USD 100 + shipping + any CF card). The performance is quite reasonable for any PowerBook with internal SCSI.
#14
insaneboy
-
- 68000
-
- LocationPortland, ME
Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:57 PM
Pardon, I probably missed something in this thread. Could you please drop a line about the goal of the project or a link to the previous thread? Is it about designing a SCSI SSD from scratch or just about interfacing an existing storage device?
Did someone recently ask for availability of CF Powermonster at http://www.artmix.com? This device is the SSD solution with the lowest list price I know (about USD 100 + shipping + any CF card). The performance is quite reasonable for any PowerBook with internal SCSI.
I've tried contacting artmix, I have not gotten any response. Seems to me that solution is now NLA.
#15
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 24 February 2011 - 01:54 AM
nobody is "fussing" about anything. And about the artmix guys, i have tried to get in contact with them months ago, and haven't heard anything. I was just hoping i would get a little bit more enthusiasm and appreciations for the efforts put into this project. This is not an easy project, and has taken alot of time so far, and still taking time. 
This device uses two 8-bit AVR micros to get the job done, and whilst it may not have the best performance, it WILL work. Its better than having nothing at all, right?
Yes, this is based on a previous GPL'd project that has been done in a full-scale manor, so the only thing that is truly "mine" is the on-going board design, plus several schematic edits/changes that i am reworking to better suit my/our needs.
about the 2mm connector thing, youll have to excuse my "knowledge" about the connector, as i have no calipers to gauge mine so i can draw a footprint in CAD, and i must have overlooked the entities in the 3M 2MM ones you had mentioned about. Sorry. I will look further into that, since obtaining a modern connector will be much easier, I was just hoping to just re-use my old one. less parts i have to buy.
Besides, after this one works out, i will design a NEW board that supports SD cards. since they are much cheaper, and extremely plentiful. the only downside is speed.
This device uses two 8-bit AVR micros to get the job done, and whilst it may not have the best performance, it WILL work. Its better than having nothing at all, right?
Yes, this is based on a previous GPL'd project that has been done in a full-scale manor, so the only thing that is truly "mine" is the on-going board design, plus several schematic edits/changes that i am reworking to better suit my/our needs.
about the 2mm connector thing, youll have to excuse my "knowledge" about the connector, as i have no calipers to gauge mine so i can draw a footprint in CAD, and i must have overlooked the entities in the 3M 2MM ones you had mentioned about. Sorry. I will look further into that, since obtaining a modern connector will be much easier, I was just hoping to just re-use my old one. less parts i have to buy.
Besides, after this one works out, i will design a NEW board that supports SD cards. since they are much cheaper, and extremely plentiful. the only downside is speed.
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#16
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 24 February 2011 - 02:47 AM
P.S. I am trying to find the right angle SMD ones.
The ones from the 3M link you sent are right angle, through hole, and SMD streight.
The ones from the 3M link you sent are right angle, through hole, and SMD streight.
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#17
Trash80toHP_Mini
-
- 68040
-
NIGHT STALKER
- LocationBermuda Triangle, NC, USA
Posted 24 February 2011 - 12:29 PM
Since SCSI is an open standard, there are probably specs for the connector available online, if not an actual CAD layout. I don't have time to google for such and I'm still offline at home. Maybe some othe comrade could hunt down the specs for you.
The other notion was to look through the TechNotes for early PowerBooks . . .
The other notion was to look through the TechNotes for early PowerBooks . . .
#18
CJ_Miller
-
- 6502
- Locationno
Posted 24 February 2011 - 01:47 PM
I was just hoping i would get a little bit more enthusiasm and appreciations for the efforts put into this project. This is not an easy project, and has taken alot of time so far, and still taking time.
I am very enthused, and appreciative. It is one of the more awesome undertakings I have heard of in a long time!
P.S. I am trying to find the right angle SMD ones.
You lost me there, I don't believe in SMD for connectors. Guess that's the extra wear and expense of my road warrior lifestyle. The project does still interest me just the same, I have never heard of anybody doing SCSI this way.
#19
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 24 February 2011 - 04:13 PM
I may have jumped the gun a little bit in my last post as well, because its hard to read peoples emotions/feelings through a keyboard 
I dont like SMD either, but for a board size this small, with these dimensions, i found it better suited. BUT i can use through-hole as well, but i would have to make a sandwich board to support it, as there isnt enough room as it sits right now to route traces around a through-hole connector.
I dont like SMD either, but for a board size this small, with these dimensions, i found it better suited. BUT i can use through-hole as well, but i would have to make a sandwich board to support it, as there isnt enough room as it sits right now to route traces around a through-hole connector.
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
#20
techknight
-
- 68LC040
-
Posted 24 February 2011 - 06:44 PM
I updated the wiki page to reflect this project as well...
Main PC: Intel core I7 920, MSI x58 platinum, Radeon4850
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
PB: tibook G4, ibook G4, ibook g3x2, Lombard, 160, 165, 180, 180c Duo 2300x2, Duo 270c x2, 520cPPC, 3400c, 1400c
Desktop: G3AIO, SE, SE/30, 512k, plus, LCIII, iMac G4, iMac intel, 6400/225
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
