Twin PCI Riser Project for TAM, 6360, 5x00 Single Slot PowerMacs.

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Silly question: has anyone ever removed the backplane plate and RJ-45 connector to fit a CSII NIC directly into mobo slot? Looks like there might just be room enough to do that. You can trim quite a bit off that end of the board too. Lop it off right up to the thruholes for the RJ. The only component lost would be the LED and that could be wired from the vias to wherever. That's a full centimeter removed from face of backplane plate to just shy of the RJ thruholes. That way you could use CSII (low power draw spec) and a combo of fairly low power draw PCI cards at the same time. Maybe a USB card and a "just good enough" video card. [}]

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Nobody has posted a pic of the inner surface of the Fat Back, One would be much appreciated because I'm concerned there might be reinforcement ribs molded into the surface which might physically conflict with the second PCI card. Also requested would be pics of the Backplane/Fatback combo from a few angles so I can judge how much clearance there is from the joint between the two.

A simple yes or no answer as to whether the inside of the back is a smooth surface, will work for now.

Since I'm in reorg/downsize mode, it was easy to find at least some of my printouts and notes from this project so I can futz with it during downtime at work. I can peek and poke at the FauxBenchTAM™ I've yet to button up for storage without much impact on reorg time at home.

 

[EvilCapitalist]

I'm pretty sure it's just smooth inside the fat back.  I don't think there are guide tracks or anything like that in there but I can take a picture later this afternoon.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

View attachment TwinSlot-Riser-Proto2-00b.PDF

 

[EvilCapitalist]

Here we go, now that the forum is back up:

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Excellent!, thanks so much. Given some downtime tonight, I can fiddle around with making cardboard prototypes for testing the fit in TAM, 6360 and their AIO kin. I've got a pair of connectors, contacts pulled and ready to drill and tap so they can be bolted up to any of the four cardboard mockups. If the 2cm offset board is too tall to fit you can test the tighter spaced, lower profile version. After the 6360 trials I can get the TAM boards out to you. I'll also trim a modem PCB for test fitting a bobbed NIC installed directly in the CS2 slot. Doubtful, but given enough clearance for components it may just fit into the skinny back?

 

[EvilCapitalist]

Sure, I can test whatever you cook up. 

The skinny back is so skinny that certain RAM sticks won't fit in the machine with it installed, so I don't think you'd get any usable clearance to be able to have anything in the PCI or CSII slots.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Well, then you might be able use the Bobbed NIC in the CS2 slot and two PCI cards so long as there's no accelerator to soak up the Power.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

It fits!  []   Twin Slotted 6360 with Video Card in standard position and one of my precious Sonnet TEMPOtrios in the upper, setback slot from a few angles.



Cardboard "PCB" Riser, had to go with the lower position, but I may be able to raise it half way back up?







I've got room to set the card about half an inch farther back into the drawer, that will make it easier to break USB and FireWire out the vestigial LC PDS slot port.



Overview of the entire drawer, chock full of goodies, AV card and CSII NIC are missing. The redundant TV Tuner needs to go to make way for a squirrel cage fan or the like.

In this configuration I was surprised that the cover plate on the upper card is only about 1mm shy of clearing the top of the opening. I've got room to raise the top card a bit closer to standard slot spacing. Only a low profile card will work in the top slot for the real deal. I think there may be even less cubic in the 6360/5xxx drawer than is available in the TAM's Fat Back

Gotta figure out where to put the SSD and how to snake the cable from the TRIO's ATA/133 connector to it.

Too bad the TRIO isn't compatible with the TAM or my 6500 boards  .  .  .  oh well.

Next up: TAM testing!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I think I've got it: low profile bi-directional PATA<->SATA adapter.

I can desolder the PATA cable connector and install a socket on the flip side to plug directly into the ATA/133 cable connector of the TRIO. Desolder the MOLEX connector and wire up a 5V connection for the Adapter alone. That will drop the SATA connector underneath the TRIO PCB for snaking only a SATA data cable to a SATA SSD powered from another source. That way I only have a ropelike SATA data cable to deal with, no ribbon cables involved at all! :grin:

That's it for tonight  .  .  .  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :scrambled:

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

TAM - It should fit! []







Some nasty surgery on the USB cable connector I lopped off the other day. An adapter PCB would be my first choice, but a hacked cable snaked out the back through a printed strain relief CSII port cover might be ideal, Ya gotta have a cable, may as well make it a fixed feature?



Tested in a worst case scenario: the TAM Backplane template is set so the slot cover is at least 1.25mm lower than it should be IRL. Everything fits within my estimated profile of the arc of the side/backplane. The center of the standoff's top surface aligns with the arc, leaving a a couple of millimeters clearance for the ATA connector edges on the TRIO. The curvature of the Fat Back's inner surface gives even a skootch more clearance. Trio itself it a near worst case configuration.

I don't have a card with FireWire connectors mounted upright above USB connectors. That would be the absolute worst case, horizontal connectors are 19mm wide 19mm wide and the standoff/estimated edge of the arc is only 16mm so it all depends:

-  how high theFW connectors might be mounted on the card

-  how much the second slot can be backed off to harvest more clearance from the curvature of the Fat Back

-  how much headspace the joint between side/backplane plate and inner surface of the Fat Back might offer

Dunno, USB only cards for the TAM/6500 are a lot(?) easier to come by than compatible combo cards. I need a figure on how far back I can move the upper slot in the TAM.

Comments?

 

[Paralel]

You made a foam board with the actual connectors first, to figure out the 3D interplay of all the parts? Genius!

I think I will have to steal this idea for a card I am contemplating making, based on a suggestion you made regarding the blackbird recently.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Thanks! I've been playing around with prototyping all kinds of stuff out of all kinds of stuff IRL since the Apple I came out. Not foam, it's two layers of what appears to be four ply glossy one side card stock about .4mm thick.  The six ply I've still got on hand from over fifteen years ago is about .5mm thick. With rubber cement between the card stock halves and holding the laser printout paper on their outer surfaces I wind up with about 1.25mm overall thickness which fits into an edgecard slot snugly, but not tight as real FRP stock/edgecard connector which is on the order of 1.6mm in thickness according to my digipers.

I think poster board from a drugstore is four ply, dunno, I get all I want for free. I do the pasteup on the matte side, score and fold along the top edge so the printed sides are cemented together. A little work with a matte knife and it's an Instant laser printed, multiple ply laminated PCB protoboard you'd never know had been part of a big offset printed sign.

Funny you should mention your Blackbird procswap, I'll pop in for a couple of comments. Something you mentioned got me thinking about your project. []

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

It's about time for an update on this one, moved Slot B back a bit farther and have sourced and tested RA USB and Firewire breakout cables. Just need to do PCB design and order some boards. Finalizing schematic and have come up with a new twist in the Mythical Slot_C thread.

 

[Trekintosh]

Hey T80, you want any help with this project? I know my way around KiCAD and have ordered boards before, plus I have some advance-ish soldering skills.

Not selfless, of course, I want to make one for my own 5500 :v

Ha, after poking around I found the TriSlot thread and saw this:

My TwinSlot Riser for P6360/5x00 has yet to be laid out, nor has the TAM Version been. Maybe someone will jump on that part of the project at some point?

Consider this me officially offering to jump. I can probably have a schematic off to fab within a month or two.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

SWEET! Thanks much.

I've got the boards laid out in AI8 for form factor and the traces as well so schematic capture should be a breeze. I need three boards, TwinSlots for 6360/5x00 and TAM. Third one's a TriSlot beauty for the 6360. Yes it'll fit nicely with topbar mod @chelseayr.

I can send the TriSlot test board and cardboard mockups out as soon as I can find the time to solder the jumpers and test. Get that one in and the other pair are choppped down versions from that. PM with address, etc.

As for soldering, I'd think PCBway or another fab house could provide and wave solder the connectors to ship us complete boards, no?


edit: guess I need help from the TAM crazies for test fitment of that cardboard mockup riser, volunteers?

 

[Trekintosh]

SWEET! Thanks much.

I've got the boards laid out in AI8 for form factor and the traces as well so schematic capture should be a breeze. I need three boards, TwinSlots for 6360/5x00 and TAM. Third one's a TriSlot beauty for the 6360. Yes it'll fit nicely with topbar mod @chelseayr.

I can send the TriSlot test board and cardboard mockups out as soon as I can find the time to solder the jumpers and test. Get that one in and the other pair are choppped down versions from that. PM with address, etc.

As for soldering, I'd think PCBway or another fab house could provide and wave solder the connectors to ship us complete boards, no?


edit: guess I need help from the TAM crazies for test fitment of that cardboard mockup riser, volunteers?

Go ahead and email, DM, FTP, BBS, snail mail, or carrier pigeon me the files you have and sometime within the next week or so I'll get started. Yes, fab houses will do soldering, but through-hole parts are much more expensive than SMD, and sourcing can be a problem (though PCBWay will buy from Digikey). I'm happy to solder the slots myself to save a bunch, since I really enjoy soldering, or at least I'm addicted to the lead fumes.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Well, there you go . . . so long as you don't develop a taste for the sweet variety in old paint.

I guess the AI files will probably do the trick by themselves. I'll get a full set of .PDF versions set up to post.

Doing the Tri-Slot version for prototyping should be the first step I think? We can probably make it a vertically extended superset of the baseline TwiSlot setback design in the pics above for my 6360 and your 5500. Just lop off the top third of the card and Bob's our uncle.

 

[Trekintosh]

Well, there you go . . . so long as you don't develop a taste for the sweet variety in old paint.

I guess the AI files will probably do the trick by themselves. I'll get a full set of .PDF versions set up to post.

Doing the Tri-Slot version for prototyping should be the first step I think? We can probably make it a vertically extended superset of the baseline TwiSlot setback design in the pics above for my 6360 and your 5500. Just lop off the top third of the card and Bob's our uncle.

Yeah, that’s pretty much how I was planning to attack it. I think the most universal way to do it might even be to set it up such that the third slot can be snapped off for people who don’t want it, though I’ll have to actually lay out the board to see if that’s feasible, there might be too many traces to squeeze that in. I don’t have a good sense of scale from images so I’ll have to measure it.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I think the best way to go is to do a straight up TriSlot for the topbar modded 6360. If that proves out, patched or not, the prototype run will likely suffice for the needs of lunatics like myself.

Then move on to the SetBack/Twinslot for 6360/5x00 machines we desire and possibly rearrange board to TAM spec at some point.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Not sure about location of top slot, I moved it back for cable clearance, will have to work on it to give you the corrected file. The larger outline is for the TAM Riser , I'll check it for accuracy. I've got a finalized version of the TriSlot diagram I haven't found yet, will update.

This should get you started I think?

edit: have you got Illustrator or another program that'll let you do measurement takeoff? I can post the original AI8 files if so.