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Power Macintosh 6500 and Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh Logic Board Component Differences (With Chart)

jajan547

68000
Hello everyone, I've been doing a lot of studying up on the Power Macintosh 6500 and Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh logic boards. I own both machines and was curious what needed to be added, removed, or moved in general to make a Power Macintosh 6500 logic board work in place of a Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh logic board or vice versa. I have attached a chart below documenting every component level difference and which side of the logic board said components can be found. I'm sure most of you know by now that by removing R207 on a Power Macintosh 6500 logic board will give you the Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh start up noise, however I was curious to also see if a Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh logic board will boot in a Power Macintosh 6500 chassis, the answer is no. It will turn on but it will not display an image at all, there is however a very faint startup noise. The reasons for this can be seen in the Gazelle Schematic (configured differently for different housings and displays). The good news here though is that if you ever need to convert a Power Macintosh 6500 logic board to work in a Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh chassis this chart should be able to document those differences and allow for a smooth way to source a new board if yours were to ever need replacement.
 

Attachments

Update! Slowly going back and adding the values for each component. If this helps anyone out let me know would be happy to hear about it.
 
Hi All,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I have just picked up a TAM which was boxed and looked in great condition - unfortunately it's PRAM battery has leaked over the logicboard and seems to have destroyed it video output.

My initial review of the damage leads me to think that the best option would be to source a new logic board from a 6500.

I wanted to clarify how much work is needed - If I install a 6500 board after removing the DB25 external SCSI port will it just work? (with the wrong chime / 6500 machine id) ? - Or do I need to remove the additional components that @jajan547 documented in the first post?

Regards

Rich
 
I wanted to clarify how much work is needed - If I install a 6500 board after removing the DB25 external SCSI port will it just work? (with the wrong chime / 6500 machine id) ? - Or do I need to remove the additional components that @jajan547 documented in the first post?
If you're removing stuff like the DB25 external SCSI port, then you can probably make whatever changes are required to get the TAM chime / machine id. Check the Power Mac 6500 schematics
  • DEV_ID2 (sheet 7) needs to be changed. Remove R207? (sheet 15) This makes the TAM chime. This change is described in the first post.
  • CPU_ID0 needs to be changed. Remove R165 or connect it to ground? (sheet 21) Or C430 on sheet 22?
    I think this makes the CPU_ID for 5500/TAM instead of 6500 but I'm not sure. Could use more probe-ids dumps.
Use jumpers to make them configurable?

probe-ids can capture the bits. You want the bits to match a TAM instead of a 6500.
https://68kmla.org/bb/threads/5500-board-wont-post-chime-w-o-the-display-hooked-up.52400/post-591629
https://68kmla.org/bb/threads/photo-request-5500-6500-and-tam-logic-board.46450/post-576941

Read the entire threads.
 
Hi All,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I have just picked up a TAM which was boxed and looked in great condition - unfortunately it's PRAM battery has leaked over the logicboard and seems to have destroyed it video output.

My initial review of the damage leads me to think that the best option would be to source a new logic board from a 6500.

I wanted to clarify how much work is needed - If I install a 6500 board after removing the DB25 external SCSI port will it just work? (with the wrong chime / 6500 machine id) ? - Or do I need to remove the additional components that @jajan547 documented in the first post?

Regards

Rich
Hi, any photos of the battery damage?
 
Hi, any photos of the battery damage?
Hi @nzmacuser,

Yes see attached, these pictures are after cleaning the damage up with some 99% IPA.

The machine boots with a bong and I can hear it loading from the hard disk but nothing ever appears on the screen, as the damage is around the ATI chip I am assuming that this is the cause of the lack of video.

A lot of the damage could be cleaned off but I can still see gunk in the vias and a lot of the traces look worn.

I'd love to know any thoughts.

Regards

Rich
 

Attachments

Hi @nzmacuser,

Yes see attached, these pictures are after cleaning the damage up with some 99% IPA.

The machine boots with a bong and I can hear it loading from the hard disk but nothing ever appears on the screen, as the damage is around the ATI chip I am assuming that this is the cause of the lack of video.

A lot of the damage could be cleaned off but I can still see gunk in the vias and a lot of the traces look worn.

I'd love to know any thoughts.

Regards

Rich
Thanks, that damage looks quite bad. It possibly could be cleaned up with a lot of effort and using the available schematics (PM6500) to test.
The battery on my board leaked in the other direction, completely destroying the Comm Slot and dousing the nearby capacitors. I mostly cleaned this up but haven't replaced the capacitors yet. Currently I get no video, it just chimes like your one when powered on.
I was thinking the two video ram chips might have taken hidden damage to some traces too. Since they still directly underneath the battery on the other side of the motherboard, and the battery leakage could have seeped down through the layers.
 

Attachments

  • pm5500_dam.jpg
    pm5500_dam.jpg
    737 KB · Views: 7
If you're removing stuff like the DB25 external SCSI port, then you can probably make whatever changes are required to get the TAM chime / machine id. Check the Power Mac 6500 schematics
  • DEV_ID2 (sheet 7) needs to be changed. Remove R207? (sheet 15) This makes the TAM chime. This change is described in the first post.
  • CPU_ID0 needs to be changed. Remove R165 or connect it to ground? (sheet 21) Or C430 on sheet 22?
    I think this makes the CPU_ID for 5500/TAM instead of 6500 but I'm not sure. Could use more probe-ids dumps.
Use jumpers to make them configurable?

probe-ids can capture the bits. You want the bits to match a TAM instead of a 6500.
https://68kmla.org/bb/threads/5500-board-wont-post-chime-w-o-the-display-hooked-up.52400/post-591629
https://68kmla.org/bb/threads/photo-request-5500-6500-and-tam-logic-board.46450/post-576941

Read the entire threads.
Thank you @joevt once i source a board i will test removing those resistors.
 
Thanks, that damage looks quite bad. It possibly could be cleaned up with a lot of effort and using the available schematics (PM6500) to test.
The battery on my board leaked in the other direction, completely destroying the Comm Slot and dousing the nearby capacitors. I mostly cleaned this up but haven't replaced the capacitors yet. Currently I get no video, it just chimes like your one when powered on.
I was thinking the two video ram chips might have taken hidden damage to some traces too. Since they still directly underneath the battery on the other side of the motherboard, and the battery leakage could have seeped down through the layers.
Hi @nzmacuser,
yes your right i noticed my vram was also covered in battery residue,

I may just give the board a good wash/clean and recap as i havent got anything to loose.

I’m also going to make up an external video cable for the video out slot to see if any signal is generated.

R

1789115568583.jpeg
 
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