Wifi Extension Development Thread

[CC_333]

I will probably get flamed for this, but honestly in my opinion modern websites being this way are the result of "bad programming" and dependency-hell. There was a good video I watched on youtube the other day about that very topic, about how we need faster computers to run slower software at the same speed. I think the link came from here even. 

It actually amazes me that computers today with modern software really dont seem any faster than old computers I use with period correct software. Now granted old software systems dont have the same features modern ones do, plus trendy changes (UI), etc.. However the magnitude of the change doesnt warrant the "bloat" of the change. But I digress.

I totally agree. Three's minimal reasons why a newer program or OS should take up 10x the disk space, use 10x the RAM, and still manage to be only about as fast as the same thing 10 years ago.

According to reason, modern computers should be so much faster that there's absolutely no comparison. Instead, a new computer running modern versions of everything (say, my 2012 MBP, which itself isn't the newest thing out there) manages to feel about the same as, say, my PowerBook G4 A1106 running at 1.6 GHz with 2 GB RAM (which is a lot for a G4).

There are things that are legitimately faster, of course, but the concept of efficient coding (especially for web sites) seems to have gone by the wayside. If people coded efficiently, we probably wouldn't need 15+ GB for a basic OS install (of course, I came of age in the late 90s and early 2000s, at a time when 2-4 GB for the basic OS (no programs) was considered excessive (for instance, an average install of Windows 98 SE or 2000 is only about 250 MB - 400 MB or 600 MB - 1 GB, respectively; XP RTM approached the 2 GB mark with functionality similar to 2000, and people were complaining that it was bloated); nowadays, that's considered ridiculously tiny).

Larger sizes are inevitable when new features are implemented, but there's no reason for it to mushroom out of control like it has been (well, to be fair, for OSes, disk space requirements have remained relatively constant with ~10-15 GB since OS X Snow Leopard, and 15-20 GB since Windows Vista.

c

 

[techknight]

You nailed it in one of your sentences, thats the only difference I have noticed really is computational algorithms have taken advantage of modern hardware, such as rendering, encoding, etc. Something old computers couldnt do, or couldnt do without help like the MPEG2 decoder card. 

But honestly thats about it.

 

[CC_333]

I know!

It's stupid to waste resources just because they're there. I guess, back when resources were scarce, people had to be as efficient as possible, but now they don't care because there's so many resources available that they can use all they want-- to do the same exact thing as before, but with a useless UI and a bunch of extra bells and whistles that nobody wants (think recent versions of Windows).

As I said earlier, it would be incredible how much faster things would be if people still coded things efficiently.

c

 

[Paralel]

This almost makes me want to make a PDS card that would act as a "Web accelerator" for classic Mac's...

Regarding bloat, I agree. I think this is why people are holding onto CPU's for systems for so long, besides, as mentioned, the embedded hardware acceleration for certain specific functions, as they haven't improved much at all since the Core2Duo.

 

[CC_333]

That's a nice idea!

But it would be even nicer to have an internet that actually works using period software on unmodded Macs, otherwise, it begins to feel like we're using the Mac as little more than a dumb terminal (which, perhaps, is unavoidable).

c

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

It's stupid to waste resources just because they're there. I guess, back when resources were scarce, people had to be as efficient as possible, but now they don't care because there's so many resources available that they can use all they want-- to do the same exact thing as before  .  .  .

My dad was a Systems Engineering (programming) manager back in the early/mid sixties. IBM did a study and found that in order to sell the number of cycles desired by the end of the decade the entire US population would be needed as programmers. Machine coding morphed into higher and higher level languages and bloat has been nipping at the heels of Moore's law ever since.

This almost makes me want to make a PDS card that would act as a "Web accelerator" for classic Mac's...

A Pi slice between socket and CPU would be the way to go for such a co-processor as I see it. You'd be using an available interrupt, so use one Apple didn't tie up in physical implementation. All Macs, most especially PDS Macs were inexcusably slot starved.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

it begins to feel like we're using the Mac as little more than a dumb terminal  .  .  .

Not at all, it would be no different than installing an MPEG Decoder Card in the Quadra 630 series or a DSP card for Photoshop or Digital Audio workstation. It's still interacting with the CPU on an OS level like any period specific interface card. Using the Mac as a terminal ought to be far easier.

 

[10001001sos]

Great write-up you have here!!! :approve:   It is truly amazing what you have accomplished! I have a few questions though:

-I checked your readme.md file on your GitHub, but was stumped on how you bridged WiFi to Ethernet with your GL-iNet AR300M Router. 

-I already have my adapter’s drivers installed and the MacTCP panel present, along with the WiFi extension.

-Additionally, MacTCP is giving me weird messages saying “incorrect IP Address”  :?:

-Also, is this project dead?  :`-(

What I want to do:

-I want to be able to use MacWeb 2.0 to connect my Mac SE to the internet.

-I want to take this to public networks and still have it work wirelessly (even if DHCP won’t work).

Forgive me if this is common sense to most of you, but I have been trying to figure out how to use this for days now.  Any help is appreciated.  Thanks! 

Specs:

-Mac SE with 4 MB of RAM (No accelerator), 800K Drive, 20MB SCSI Hard Drive (System 7.1 installed)

-Farallon EtherMac Mac/PB to Ethernet adapter

-GL-iNet AR300M Router

 

[ants]

Hi @10001001sos. The MacWifi project isn't dead - I got it to a working state so it hasn't needed any further work as yet. The latest version is on the GitHub page here: https://github.com/antscode/MacWifi/releases

I understand setting up the GL-iNet Router is complicated. Which step in the readme file are you stuck on? I can try and help you out.

I use Open Transport instead of MacTCP - I find it much easier to set up and DHCP works.

 

[10001001sos]

Hi @10001001sos. The MacWifi project isn't dead - I got it to a working state so it hasn't needed any further work as yet. The latest version is on the GitHub page here: https://github.com/antscode/MacWifi/releases

I understand setting up the GL-iNet Router is complicated. Which step in the readme file are you stuck on? I can try and help you out.

I use Open Transport instead of MacTCP - I find it much easier to set up and DHCP works.

My question is, how do I bridge the WiFi (wwan) interface to the hardwired lan, allowing me to convert wireless signals to hard-wired.  I have searched online for ways to do this, but each way is different (some use this package called relayd).  I do understand though how to install the packages, switch the interfaces, and how to ssh onto the router.  Also, I sadly [and correct me if I am wrong] cannot use use OpenTransport on my Mac SE (not SE/30).  Pictures would help as well.  Thanks!  :approve:

Edit: I am sorry about slow communication, as I live on the other side of the world  ;-) .

 

[LaPorta]

This may be not what people are looking for, but my solution for all of my old Macs is simple: AirPort base stations set to extend my home network. Insert ethernet cable: bam. Instant internet access.

 

[ants]

@10001001sos I'll log into my router and screenshot the bridge settings. I'll try for this weekend.

 

[10001001sos]

Hey ants,

let me know when you have posted the screenshots.  It would really help me out  :approve:

 

[ants]

Hey @10001001sos sorry for the delay - please see attached PDF of my router settings. My settings are a bit of a mess - mainly because I don't know how to rename the network interfaces so they are a bit misleading.

Here's what I can tell you:

1. The first interface LAN is the Bridge between the Wireless network and the Ethernet Port on eth0. This is the important interface that ties everything together.
   
2. The second interface WAN on eth1 is unused - you'd only use this if you were routing to a wired network using the second ethernet port on the router
   
3. The third interface WAN6 on eth0 is the ethernet connection between the router and the Mac. WAN6 is obviously a misleading name but I can't seem to rename it!
   
4. The fourth interface WWAN is the Wireless connection. I'm unsure if this is actually used, but I'm too scared to delete it.
   

I only included the settings for LAN and WAN6 so not to confuse you - but I can include more if required.
View attachment router-settings.pdf

 

[10001001sos]

Thank you so very much!  I will test this soon!  Also, for others who may have trouble with this, could you add this PDF to the GitHub page readme.md?

 

[10001001sos]

Ok, so I applied the settings that you mentioned in the pdf, I plugged a cat5e rj45 straight-through cable into the wan port of the router (I assume this is because of the swapped interfaces), I installed the packages (ssh'd into router and configured settings), and I connected the other end of the cable into my Farallon Ethermac adapter.  When I attempt to connect to a network, the extension says that it is "scanning for networks" but won't change from that.  I have the device's drivers installed, along with the hardware appearing to work.  My question is, is my hardware bad, do I have the wrong drivers, did I miss a step in the configuration, am I using the wrong cable?  At this point, if I can even connect this machine hard-wired, that would be satisfactory.  Thanks again!

Edit: Now that I think of it, am I using the wrong version of MacTCP?  I am currently using version 2.0.6

 

[ants]

Have you tried connecting the router to your modern PC/Mac via Ethernet to see if it works?

It's much easier to diagnose problems on a modern device, then once it's working you can try on your vintage Mac.

Also, are you seeing a solid Link Light on your vintage Mac Ethernet card? If not, then your speed & duplex settings are probably wrong.

 

[10001001sos]

Have you tried connecting the router to your modern PC/Mac via Ethernet to see if it works?

It's much easier to diagnose problems on a modern device, then once it's working you can try on your vintage Mac.

Also, are you seeing a solid Link Light on your vintage Mac Ethernet card? If not, then your speed & duplex settings are probably wrong.

I will try your advice with connecting it to my modern computer.  Also, my external adapter (not a card) has one green light, another light to show connection (I think it is green), and an occasional yellow flickering (I think for connection activity).  Otherwise, the only other problem I notice is when I use an auto-detect for driver installation of my external adapter, it says that the adapter is not found (Question for another post I would assume).  Instead I did the full installation, which seemed to work.  It could also be that the drivers are meant for both the Farallon Etherwave and the Farallon EtherMac.  I will debug this problem some more when I am near my Mac again.  I really hope this works out in the end :approve: .  Imagine strolling into a Starbucks or Panera with this thing and connecting to WiFi, in addition to Young people’s mouths dropping in horror  !

Also, before I forget, do I set my speed and duplex settings by ssh’ing into the router and opening a specific file, or do I enter the Luci interface, go into startup, and go to the editable box at the bottom and add the speed and duplex command after all of the other stuff?

 

[ants]

Also, before I forget, do I set my speed and duplex settings by ssh’ing into the router and opening a specific file, or do I enter the Luci interface, go into startup, and go to the editable box at the bottom and add the speed and duplex command after all of the other stuff?

Do it via the Luci interface, otherwise it won't persist when you turn off the router.

Also see my note about swapping eth0 and eth1 in the MacWifi readme.

 

[Michael_b]

Do it via the Luci interface, otherwise it won't persist when you turn off the router.

Also see my note about swapping eth0 and eth1 in the MacWifi readme.

Just curious, why is OpenWRT 18.06 required for this extension?