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Upgrading my Performa 6360 with L2 slot CPU and Ethernet card

I have a Performa 6360 with a PPC 603e running at 166MHz with the original 1.2GB HDD and 40MB RAM on MacOS 7.5.3 (fresh install from the disc that came with it).

I want to speed it up a little bit and install MacOS 9.1 to play Quake III and UT99 on LAN parties, but still be able to dual boot with 7.5.3 to make disks for my Macintosh Plus. Would a Vimage G3 upgrade card that goes in the L2 cache slot be a good investment (along with some more RAM)? Or would it be cheaper and easier to get a faster Performa or one of the beige G3 towers/desktops? If so, which machine would you guys recommend I get that can still run 7.5.3, but is also faster?

Ethernet:
What kind of card should I get for Ethernet on this machine? It has a comm slot as well as PCI, but I don't know what models of PCI cards to get, or where to get a commslot card or what kind I should get (commslot 1/commslot2). I need an ethernet card so I can more easily transfer files to it from my newer 2xG4 Quicksilver than by using floppy disks.

If I need to add more info to my post to better ask the questions, I will gladly do it. This is my first post here.

Thanks-

KABX
 

Byrd

Well-known member
Hi KABX,

The 6320 is a good machine but you would be pushing it to run Quake II, UT games - most of these are OS X specific too. The onboard video is only capable of software rendering without any 3D acceleration capabilities.

However, noting these considerations

- Max out the RAM to 128MB (2 x 64MB DIMMs)
- Look into a bigger faster HD - some have had success with CF to IDE adapter but I didn't, currently using a 80GB 5400RPM 2.5" HD in my 6300
- CommSlot II ethernet is what you want, leave you a free PCI slot
- PCI slot for USB card or if you are really keen to play early 3D games, look into a 3DFX Voodoo 2 card (these get hot so you'd need to improve cooling inside the cramped innards of the case)
- G3 upgrade is always an impressive speed boost, but expensive - think $200 - 500 for one; after all the above something like a beige G3 might be better overall.

JB
 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I LOVE my 6360/466MHzG3, but it's NOT a LAN Party machine.

Find a plastics destroyed G3 DeskTop (with Rev.B board?) to strip off the plastics for installation of its beautiful sheet metal into some kind of carry case. Bus speed increase, pretty darn good graphics and internet are on board to begin with. Three PCI slots gets you into fast Ethernet card country and great PCI Vidcard territory with a slot left over for something else. PCI and solid state storage rings a bell for me in your situation.

edit: oh, and welcome aboard!
 
Last edited:

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Hey welcome in!

In my experience, a "real" G3 or G4 is faster than any 603/604 that's been upgraded. They also have onboard ethernet, and more slots for things like a better graphics card.

That said: Do you like this machine? If so, it might be worth upgrading it just because upgrading a machine you like can be fun, especially since no newer Macs really have this form factor. Even if it doesn't play those games well, and, given that this is a computer from 1996, it may not even with upgrades installed.

For the comm slot card, these machines take comm slot 2 ethernet, I recommend doing that even though these can run PCI ethernet, because that leaves the PCI slot free for graphics like an ATi Rage 128, or a potential combination card, such as a USB/FW one.


If you have a duallie G4, you can probably run OS 9 and the games you want on there, even if OS 9 doesn't really take advantage of dual CPUs most of the time. Most stock QuickSilver configurations should run Quake III and UT99 fine, so that's an option. It sounds like these games run under OS X as well, if so they may run better on OS X than they do on OS 9 and a dual G4 may be beneficial for that.

The next most compact Mac OS 9 machines are laptops, iMac G3s (presuming you were planning on bringing a CRT display anyway, which I realize is a stretch), iMac G4s, any 7x00 or Beige G3 desktop, and finally, the Mac mini, which runs OS 9 through hacks and may or may not do 3d games well.

This is sort of getting into the slippery slope of vintage to modern but if these are OS X games they may also run on an early Intel machine using Rosetta.
 

LaPorta

Well-known member
In my experience, Quake III runs fine on an iMac DV with G3. G4s are perfect for it. It works under OS 9 and OS X.
 
Hi KABX,

The 6320 is a good machine but you would be pushing it to run Quake II, UT games - most of these are OS X specific too. The onboard video is only capable of software rendering without any 3D acceleration capabilities.

However, noting these considerations

- Max out the RAM to 128MB (2 x 64MB DIMMs)
- Look into a bigger faster HD - some have had success with CF to IDE adapter but I didn't, currently using a 80GB 5400RPM 2.5" HD in my 6300
- CommSlot II ethernet is what you want, leave you a free PCI slot
- PCI slot for USB card or if you are really keen to play early 3D games, look into a 3DFX Voodoo 2 card (these get hot so you'd need to improve cooling inside the cramped innards of the case)
- G3 upgrade is always an impressive speed boost, but expensive - think $200 - 500 for one; after all the above something like a beige G3 might be better overall.

JB
Thank you for the reply. Based on what you and others have said, I think I'll get a CommSlot II ethernet card. I also am able to get a beige G3 for around $70, so I think I'll get that instead of going for the upgrade. As for graphics, I may go for an upgraded graphics card, but for the G3, not the Performa. A USB card would be eternally helpful, though, if I can't find a CommSlot II ethernet card. I have a little home network set up with my other Macs and if I can find one of those cards it would be really useful for transferring files. I also think that getting another IDE HD to use in it that's larger would be a good idea. I have a 10GB fireball I can use and dual install 9.1 and 7.5.3.

Thanks-

KABX
 
I LOVE my 6360/466MHzG3, but it's NOT a LAN Party machine.

Find a plastics destroyed G3 DeskTop (with Rev.B board?) to strip off the plastics for installation of its beautiful sheet metal into some kind of carry case. Bus speed increase, pretty darn good graphics and internet are on board to begin with. Three PCI slots gets you into fast Ethernet card country and great PCI Vidcard territory with a slot left over for something else. PCI and solid state storage rings a bell for me in your situation.

edit: oh, and welcome aboard!
Thanks for the reply! After reading yours and others and other stuff online, I think I will splurge and get a G3. At the computer place I get my parts, there's also a couple Sawtooth G4s and (I think) an MDD in the back, I can't quite remember. They've been out in the weather and rained on for many years, but the insides look fine so if I can get those for a discounted price or free they will also be useful as more Macs, or parts machines if they don't work.
 

volvo242gt

Well-known member
If you do decide to go the G4 DP route, I would recommend avoiding the MDD series. Yeah, they're the newest machines, but they are also *really* loud, thanks to their wind tunnel ducting for the fan. Even a single processor G4 MDD can be noisy, but at least it won't be howling while in use. A G4 QS would be a lot quieter. I've owned a MDD, a QS, and a Digital Audio G4. Had the MDD and the DA at the same time. Sold off the MDD and kept using the DA.
 
Hey welcome in!

In my experience, a "real" G3 or G4 is faster than any 603/604 that's been upgraded. They also have onboard ethernet, and more slots for things like a better graphics card.

That said: Do you like this machine? If so, it might be worth upgrading it just because upgrading a machine you like can be fun, especially since no newer Macs really have this form factor. Even if it doesn't play those games well, and, given that this is a computer from 1996, it may not even with upgrades installed.

For the comm slot card, these machines take comm slot 2 ethernet, I recommend doing that even though these can run PCI ethernet, because that leaves the PCI slot free for graphics like an ATi Rage 128, or a potential combination card, such as a USB/FW one.


If you have a duallie G4, you can probably run OS 9 and the games you want on there, even if OS 9 doesn't really take advantage of dual CPUs most of the time. Most stock QuickSilver configurations should run Quake III and UT99 fine, so that's an option. It sounds like these games run under OS X as well, if so they may run better on OS X than they do on OS 9 and a dual G4 may be beneficial for that.

The next most compact Mac OS 9 machines are laptops, iMac G3s (presuming you were planning on bringing a CRT display anyway, which I realize is a stretch), iMac G4s, any 7x00 or Beige G3 desktop, and finally, the Mac mini, which runs OS 9 through hacks and may or may not do 3d games well.

This is sort of getting into the slippery slope of vintage to modern but if these are OS X games they may also run on an early Intel machine using Rosetta.
Thanks for the reply. I already have QIII and UT99 on my dual G4, just thought it might be fun to try to get them to run on the Performa. I actually found some fractal iterating and rendering software for OS9 that takes advantage of the Dual CPUs on the G4, pretty neat stuff, I may post some of the things I've rendered at some point. Now I'm really convinced in getting a beige G3. There's 2 at the computer place I get my parts from, one of them is extremely rusted on the inside (victim of battery explosion) but the other one is fine but pretty yellowed and beat up. I can probably get one of them the next time I go there to get a Sun Ultra 1.

P.S. are there any good forums for Sun Microsystems stuff? I know about that neko one for SGI, but what about Sun?
 
If you do decide to go the G4 DP route, I would recommend avoiding the MDD series. Yeah, they're the newest machines, but they are also *really* loud, thanks to their wind tunnel ducting for the fan. Even a single processor G4 MDD can be noisy, but at least it won't be howling while in use. A G4 QS would be a lot quieter. I've owned a MDD, a QS, and a Digital Audio G4. Had the MDD and the DA at the same time. Sold off the MDD and kept using the DA.
Thankfully my QS is pretty quiet most of the time, if I can get the MDD for a low price or free I'll still get it just for fun, though.
 

volvo242gt

Well-known member
Thankfully my QS is pretty quiet most of the time, if I can get the MDD for a low price or free I'll still get it just for fun, though.
Yeah, it might be worth having, if only for parts. Case plastics, board, and power supply are different, of course, but, the processor daughter card will fit on the QS board, drives can be used, as well as any other cards that are in the slots... It'll most likely come with a Radeon 9000 video card. For used computers and parts, I usually use RE-PC here in the Seattle area... Fairly decent selection of older Mac stuff. As a disclaimer, I haven't been to RE-PC for a couple years, so their selection may be different now. Haven't needed to go there.
 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Last I looked, at least in Tukwila, Re-PC still has some Mac things but they moved to a smaller store (on the same street, though, if I remember right) -- they do still have some Mac stuff but their prices are tracking eBay much closer at this point, at least for full systems. I didn't go to the Seattle location the last time I was in the area but when I went to the Seattle location in ~2017 they had a fairly solid selection.

I don't know what's in New Mexico on that front.

W/re MDD noise: do they do that in OS X too, or just 9? I know that 9 can't really control the fans on those correctly so my personal recommendation tends to be to avoid 9 on the MDD when possible, but they should be great X/PPC machines.

w/re MDD CPUs: I haven't heard that those are cross-compatible, and, to be honest I'd say keep the CPU with the board and use it as an OS X box. There's enough platform upgrades there that they do make good OSX machines.

I'd say consider getting those G4s - the mid-era G4s are nearly bulletproof platform-wise, so a good clean down and perhaps a power supply replacement ( http://atxg4.com/ ) may be all they need. The mid-era G4s are great for both 9 and X, as above I tend to recommend trending toward one of them instead of an MDD for OS 9 stuff, if you need/want a high performance OS 9 machine.


One more note: If you can't find an ethernet card, you can run localtalk routing or bridging on your incoming Beige G3 (or just run file sharing on it, or get an ethertalk to localtalk bridge or router) and use the serial port for networking. It won't be great (it won't even be good) but it's a great party trick most beige-era Macs can do and it's still more convenient than swapping physical media, even newer/bigger media.

You can of course use PCI ethernet, unfortunately I don't know if there were ever any Mac compatible cards that had both USB and ethernet on them.

In addition to newer IDE hard disks there's also IDE to SD adapters that may work well in these. IDE to CF adapters should also work well in the 6360, if you have that more handy.
 

volvo242gt

Well-known member
Been too long since I had that machine (2012-13?)... Was before Ian Finder traded me the A1181 he had for my old SE/30. I think it was mainly 9.2.2, since I only used OS X for certain tasks, relying on the Dell D830 I had as my main machine.

Re: Seattle, Chris Mitchell finally retired a couple years ago. Guess he finally fulfilled his dream of moving to Sequim, watching boats go by and getting sloshed, as he said he would. I'll have to check the new RE-PC location out at Tukwila.
 

Ncc74656

Well-known member
just to throw this in the ring: i got a L2 card 240 Mhz g3, 128 ram, and a 9200 radeon for my 6360. i also got a 7000 radeon and a rage 128. i can not, for the life of me, get either the 7000 or 9200 to function with the G3 addon card. the system will not make it to the desktop....
rage 128 works with the G3 card however.
ive spent weeks on this.

i managed to get the 9200 working under 9.1, it has trouble in 9.2.2 strangely enough, the G3 works in all os's, and the 7000 works at full speed in all os's with out the G3 card drivers installed.
 
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