thoughts on what version of Mac OS to install on my Quadra 610

[fergycool]

So after recapping and fixing my Quadra 610 (I am very happy with getting this far!) I am looking to which os to settle on? Currently I've installed Mac OS 7.1. 7.5.3, 7.6 and 8.1 (via BlueSCSI). All seem OK although I did have problems getting the network/internet connection working with 8.1. All OK now though.

The Quadra has 24MB of RAM. I have purchased 2 x 32MB to go to the max of 68MB.

I want to use this rather than just have it on a shelf. I already have a decent Mac OS9 setup with a G4Mac Mini (using the Mac OS9 Lives install iso). So I'm thinking Mac OS8.1 is a bit close to Mac OS9 so I should perhaps go to an earlier version. However, on the other side Mac OS8.1 is a bit easier to use!

So I'm a bit curious on what other Quadra 610 users have? I guess if I was a purist I would stick with Mac OS 7.1, since that was the original OS. However, I reckon using a BlueSCSI makes me not a purist already!

Mind you the hardware journey is not yet over I still have to decide whether to recap the PSU, and also the CD drive just ejects disks rather than mount them so I guess that needs attention too
Thanks for all the help so far!
Cheers
Ferg

 

[robin-fo]

I usually go for 7.1.1 on such Macs

 

[Snial]

So after recapping and fixing my Quadra 610 (I am very happy with getting this far!)

Cool, well done! I used a Centris 610 at Manchester Uni a bit and it was good!

I am looking to which os to settle on? <snip> The Quadra has 24MB of RAM. I have purchased 2 x 32MB to go to the max of 68MB.

Personally I go for the most powerful OS that feels responsive and uses <1/3 of the RAM.

So, for a 68000 Compact Mac with 4MB to a 16MHz 68030, I'd choose System 7.1.
For a fast 68030 to slow 68040 (e.g. Mac II SI, LC III up) I'd choose System 7.5.3 or System 7.5.5.
For any PPC Mac I'd choose Mac OS 8.1. I've tried Mac OS 8.1 on a Q630, but it felt pretty sluggish, so I wouldn't do that.

 

[finkmac]

7.1.1 Pro

 

[joshc]

7.1.1 or 7.5.3 is OK for a Quadra 610. 7.6 doesn't add much of any use and OS 8 is a bit slow on these.

 

[fergycool]

Thanks everybody. Seems like the consensus is not 8.1. I'll try 7.5.3 for a bit.

 

[fergycool]

Cool, well done! I used a Centris 610 at Manchester Uni a bit and it was good!

Unfortunately across the hills at Huddersfield and then Leeds there was only Windows 3.1 and 3.5.1! (though there was VMS at Leeds as well!

 

[Snial]

Unfortunately across the hills at Huddersfield and then Leeds there was only Windows 3.1 and 3.5.1! (though there was VMS at Leeds as well!

Gosh, did people get a degree in Microsoft Science then ;-) ? Well at least you’d end up with an MSc after 3 years !

I was doing a computer science MSc II by research at Manchester in the late 90s. I felt quite privileged to be ‘given’ a Sun IPX SparcStation for my work, but much of the write-up & simulation was done at home on my PowerMac 4400 + my adorable PowerBook 100. So the Centris 610 was handy for laser printing documents and some other fun Mac stuff.

In the end I accidentally left my PB100 on the ground floor of the Kilburn building & it got stolen. On the bright side I then managed to buy Steve Furber’s hand-me-down Duo 230 (as he had upgraded)!

Manchester Uni by then was mostly Wintel PCs for undergraduates & like Leeds, running Windows 3.1. A variety of RISC workstations were used by postgraduates & lecturers (Sun/SGI/DEC Alpha).

 

[Snial]

Unfortunately across the hills at Huddersfield and then Leeds there was only Windows 3.1 and 3.5.1! (though there was VMS at Leeds as well!

BTW: the Centris was running 7.5.3; my PB100 on 7.1; my PM4400 started on 7.5.3, but I later upgraded to 8.0 & 8.1. My LC II (which I had for the first 4 months) ran 7.1P and the Duo 230 ran 7.5.3 (adequately).

 

[fergycool]

Gosh, did people get a degree in Microsoft Science then ;-) ? Well at least you’d end up with an MSc after 3 years !

I was doing a computer science MSc II by research at Manchester in the late 90s. I felt quite privileged to be ‘given’ a Sun IPX SparcStation for my work, but much of the write-up & simulation was done at home on my PowerMac 4400 + my adorable PowerBook 100. So the Centris 610 was handy for laser printing documents and some other fun Mac stuff.

In the end I accidentally left my PB100 on the ground floor of the Kilburn building & it got stolen. On the bright side I then managed to buy Steve Furber’s hand-me-down Duo 230 (as he had upgraded)!

Manchester Uni by then was mostly Wintel PCs for undergraduates & like Leeds, running Windows 3.1. A variety of RISC workstations were used by postgraduates & lecturers (Sun/SGI/DEC Alpha).

Yeah it was a bit poor. But to be fair I was in Life Sciences not computing. SO they may have a more eclectic set of operating systems! These were the public labs in the main building and also the biology school computer labs. I did have terminal access to some sort of UNIX, but I do not really remember what it was!

 

[fergycool]

BTW: the Centris was running 7.5.3; my PB100 on 7.1; my PM4400 started on 7.5.3, but I later upgraded to 8.0 & 8.1. My LC II (which I had for the first 4 months) ran 7.1P and the Duo 230 ran 7.5.3 (adequately).

Thanks! I've just got the RAM upgrade this morning so let's see if 8.1 is acceptable in speed. Weirdly I'd ordered 2 x 32mb EDO SIMMS. But they are labelled 64MB each! But when inserted into the Quadra it's only recognising 64MB in total (plus the 4MB on the board). Like it's only taking 32MB from one side of each SIMM.

 

[Snial]

Yeah it was a bit poor.

But to be fair I was in Life Sciences

Sounds great - did that mean biology, zoology etc?

not computing. SO they may have a more eclectic set of operating systems! These were the public labs in the main building and also the biology school computer labs. I did have terminal access to some sort of UNIX, but I do not really remember what it was!

Fair enough. Manchester in 1996-1998 was a bit different to UEA 1986-1989. There was a much higher diversity then: VAX 11/780, MicroVax, Sun mini running Unix; Sun 3 workstations; the Mac Lab (Mac 512KBs, about 10 of them); Digi Lab (10x Mac Plusses); PC/AT Lab + PC Lab (mostly business degree); BBC Micro + Torch (Digital electronics); Mac II Lab (from 1988); Transputers; Prime mini; Apple ][europlus (Chemistry dept in SCI) + DEC VT220 terminals strewn across the Library connected to the Vax 11/780/MicroVax/SunMini/Transputers & a dedicated Computing Building for all students. Note the lack of PCs.

I was chatting to a friend (well, really the husband of a 6th form friend, we're getting to know better) in London yesterday and he was recounting the computing facilities at Imperial college in the early 80s (82/83). It was very different just a few years earlier. He was doing Geology in the Mines school. Hardly any contact with computers. He knew someone who had hooked a BBC micro up to sensors to record data and thought that was way-futuristic. They didn't learn any programming, not even Fortran 77. Maybe one person had a word-processor on their home computer, but they had to type up their dissertation, so he bought a typewriter. Very, very different.

I was trying to think of how I'd do a word-processed dissertation in that period in the UK. Few students could afford a PET, nor Apple ][, nor CP/M computer, so that ruled out almost all computers with professional word-processors. However, writing or typing in a Magazine word processor program in BASIC could still have been better than a typewriter. A basic VIC-20 didn't have enough RAM and a limited display, but did have centronics; the ZX Spectrum was hard to hook up to a centronics printer, but it did have the RAM; The Oric-1 had just come out in 1983, but was buggy. The Dragon-32 was a decent option. The BBC Micro was fairly expensive for students and had a serious backlog, but would have done a good job. The Video Genie was a cheap Tandy model 1 or 2 and with 16kB as standard + 64x16 display could have done it.

Simple word processors in BASIC can be written and if your goal is to beat a typewriter editing a single page at a time, then it's not too difficult. A program could simply do it with input strings with line numbers. Margins could simply be BASIC variables you edit. Word-wrap done only on printout and in 1982 no-one would need anything but left-justification. Header/Footer text could be separately input variables, or even data statements. In fact, you could probably just use the BASIC editor and put the text in DATA "text" statements, then the real program just handles printouts. Brits didn't need '$' so they could be used for control sequences: $c = centre, $nnn = tab column, $r = return. A typical A4 = 80 columns x 66 lines = 5.3kB per page, so a 16kB computer could handle 2 pages and merging; then it's all done on tape with the file name including the page number.

Thanks! I've just got the RAM upgrade this morning so let's see if 8.1 is acceptable in speed.

Interesting. Happy to post a short video to demo the boot up + 2-3 mins of interactive performance? Menu selection, opening/closing windows, copying a few files?

Weirdly I'd ordered 2 x 32mb EDO SIMMS. But they are labelled 64MB each! But when inserted into the Quadra it's only recognising 64MB in total (plus the 4MB on the board). Like it's only taking 32MB from one side of each SIMM.

Oh yes, very weird! Maybe someone can explain that? Max RAM is only supposed to be 68MB though on the Q610.

 

[fergycool]

Sounds great - did that mean biology, zoology etc?

Molecular Biology (DNA, genes etc.) at Huddersfield, then Biochemistry at Leeds. Now I work for a very small company producing Mac software for molecular biologists.

I was trying to think of how I'd do a word-processed dissertation in that period in the UK. Few students could afford a PET, nor Apple ][, nor CP/M computer, so that ruled out almost all computers with professional word-processors. However, writing or typing in a Magazine word processor program in BASIC could still have been better than a typewriter. A basic VIC-20 didn't have enough RAM and a limited display, but did have centronics; the ZX Spectrum was hard to hook up to a centronics printer, but it did have the RAM; The Oric-1 had just come out in 1983, but was buggy. The Dragon-32 was a decent option. The BBC Micro was fairly expensive for students and had a serious backlog, but would have done a good job. The Video Genie was a cheap Tandy model 1 or 2 and with 16kB as standard + 64x16 display could have done it.

Way before I went into science I did a "printing" course (family business) and I did my dissertation on an Amstrad CPC464. That was about '87 I think. I do not remember the name of the software package, but I do remember it being a pain to load the software from tape, then load the documents from tape.

Interesting. Happy to post a short video to demo the boot up + 2-3 mins of interactive performance? Menu selection, opening/closing windows, copying a few files?

Yes I will do. But not today as it's quite sunny in Cambridge, and I need to make the most before the misery of winter

Cheers
Ferg

 

[beachycove]

7.1 is very quick on a 68040 and is also very stable. 7.5 is fine on 68k but meh. 7.5.3 will run almost as fast as 7.1 if you turn most of the fluff and bloat off (e.g., QuickDraw GX and the ‘talk me through how to do things’ — the name of which escapes me presently — Extensions/ Control Panels), while giving you better networking and much better AppleScript, in particular. There is no need to go to 7.5.5, since that update was mostly PPC-related. 7.6 is a step up again but I don’t have much experience of it, and am not sure how nimble it would be without some of the extra guff turned off, but it will slow down your machine if everything is left on, for sure. 7.6 belongs definitively to the PPC era. 8.1 is best left off 68k hardware in my experience, unless for some reason you have need of HFS+ on an auxiliary drive (you can’t boot from an HFS+ drive on 68k machines).

That is my understanding of the matter, at any rate. I’ve used them all and rather like a tuned 7.5.3 on a 68k machine, though there is also something to be said for 7.1, purely because of the speed factor.

 

[Snial]

7.1 <snip> 7.5. <snip> 7.5.3 will run almost as fast as 7.1 if you turn most of the fluff and bloat off (e.g., QuickDraw GX and the ‘talk me through how to do things’ — the name of which escapes me presently — Extensions/ Control Panels), while giving you better networking and much better AppleScript, in particular. <snip> 7.5.5, <snip> mostly PPC-related. <snip> 7.6 belongs definitively to the PPC era.

Good summary.

8.1 is best left off 68k hardware <snip unless you> need of HFS+ on an auxiliary drive .

Interestingly, I remember a thread talking about someone porting HFS+ to 7.6.

 

[beachycove]

Sounds great - did that mean biology, zoology etc?

Fair enough. Manchester in 1996-1998 was a bit different to UEA 1986-1989. There was a much higher diversity then: VAX 11/780, MicroVax, Sun mini running Unix; Sun 3 workstations; the Mac Lab (Mac 512KBs, about 10 of them); Digi Lab (10x Mac Plusses); PC/AT Lab + PC Lab (mostly business degree); BBC Micro + Torch (Digital electronics); Mac II Lab (from 1988); Transputers; Prime mini; Apple ][europlus (Chemistry dept in SCI) + DEC VT220 terminals strewn across the Library connected to the Vax 11/780/MicroVax/SunMini/Transputers & a dedicated Computing Building for all students. Note the lack of PCs.

I was chatting to a friend (well, really the husband of a 6th form friend, we're getting to know better) in London yesterday and he was recounting the computing facilities at Imperial college in the early 80s (82/83). It was very different just a few years earlier. He was doing Geology in the Mines school. Hardly any contact with computers. He knew someone who had hooked a BBC micro up to sensors to record data and thought that was way-futuristic. They didn't learn any programming, not even Fortran 77. Maybe one person had a word-processor on their home computer, but they had to type up their dissertation, so he bought a typewriter. Very, very different.

I was trying to think of how I'd do a word-processed dissertation in that period in the UK. Few students could afford a PET, nor Apple ][, nor CP/M computer, so that ruled out almost all computers with professional word-processors. However, writing or typing in a Magazine word processor program in BASIC could still have been better than a typewriter.

One good turn deserves another….

I wrote a Master’s thesis in Canada in 1983, drafting on a typewriter for months and months, but towards the end using the University mainframes via the terminal to write it up, do the edits and get the thing submitted. I seem to recall that the writing was done in eMacs and a language called Scribe, which amounted to a plain text file with embedded code. I suppose it must have been a version of TROFF, but it’s been a long time and the details are hazy. Certainly the overall impression left was not at all unlike my recent attempts at writing in LaTeX, and then as now, that ‘what you see is what you mean’ method had its charms. It was certainly my first introduction to use of computers, and it opened new windows in my head educationally, but what I really liked was the output, generated on huge ribbon printers producing (for the time) lovely ‘proper’ text, making the thesis look almost like a printed book. Oh how clever I felt.

In the UK, to which I subsequently moved for study and where I lived for the next 15 years, there were almost no computers available (at least to non Comp Sci students) where I was (Edinburgh) down to as late as c. 1988. You either had to fork out for an Amstrad or whatever, which I certainly couldn’t have done — or couldn’t have done along with continuing to eat and stay warm and dry in Newington — or rely on pen and ink or a typewriter. Most with whom I rubbed shoulders just used pen and ink In those days.

By around 1990, things had changed and nearly every tertiary educational institution marketed itself as having ‘computer laboratories’, and so as providing IT skills to the great unwashed, alongside teaching them the rudiments of Philosophy or German or whatever. By 1991 I was teaching said great unwashed, and virtually every essay came out of one of those labs, as use of a ‘word processor’ was mandatory, because we wanted to demonstrate to government that we were providing useful ‘transferable skills’ alongside the purely academic content. The funding model was tied to such trappings.

The world changed very quickly during those years. I’d say about 1989 was the pivot point In UK higher education.

By the way, you shouldn’t discredit the typewriter. Most good writing is done slowly, after all, and re-writing a whole page often produces better prose than the disjointed product that comes of repeatedly editing the same jumble of words on a screen. And this is before we factor in the scourge of the footnote, use of which has multiplied to nauseating levels like some sort of computer virus in most academic prose of the past 40 years — most of said usage being unnecessary, really. I think academics ought to be required to read PG Wodehouse (late in life) on overuse of the footnote; it is a hilarious corrective.

 

[killvore]

Congratulations on getting your 610 up and running! Mine is still refusing to output video

For OS, it depends on what software you want to run - but I highly recommend 7.1 for 68k macs! It's a little more work to set up than 7.5, but it's super snappy and you can get 7.5.3-like compatibility if you add a couple of extensions.

If you want to run 7.1 on your Quadra 610, you will need System Enabler 040 from this download http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-system-enablers - without it, your machine won't boot!

Extensions worth considering for compatibility, depending on what software you are running:
• Apple Event Manager
• Open Transport
• Thread Manager 2.1
• Macintosh Drag and Drop
• Finder Scripting Extension
• Dragging Enabler

Also, I really recommend these Control Panels:
• TCP/IP - if you're networking
• SetDate - to support current dates
• SuperClock! - if you want the date or time in the menu bar (but does not always properly hide when playing games fullscreen)

It might be worth installing System Picker and then switching between a couple of different versions. I have 7.1, 7.5.3, and 8.1 available in my standard .hda but always end up back on 7.1

 

[Snial]

One good turn deserves another….

<snip> Master’s thesis in Canada in 1983, drafting on a typewriter <snip> University mainframes via the terminal to write it up <snip> eMacs and a language called Scribe, which amounted to a plain text file with embedded code. <snip> not at all unlike my recent attempts at writing in LaTeX, and then as now, that ‘what you see is what you mean <snip> my first introduction to use of computers <snip> new windows in my head educationally <snip> making the thesis look almost like a printed book. <snip>

Emacs had a long history; Scribe was on Unix, and the ribbon's thing sounds a bit like a Linotype or phototypesetting, though I've never been closer to 'proper' typesetting than a laser printer. I tried to use Mac LaTeX at the beginning of my MPhil thesis, but switched to Nisus 6.0, which I thought was wonderful. But this was 16-18 years later than you!

It must have been revolutionary to be able to even write a Thesis on a mainframe in the day! I actually wrote my own word processor for my ZX Spectrum, which I called TexEd in my 4th / 5th year of secondary school (14-16), but I had no adequate printer interface. My first word-processed essay was done in my 6th form in around 1984-1985. I wrote it on a pirated copy of Tasword 2, then printed it out by taking the cassette tape to the Nottingham Microcomputer club where one member had a ZX Spectrum with a serial interface and a Brother typerwriter/printer.

In the UK, to which I subsequently moved for study and where I lived for the next 15 years, there were almost no computers available (at least to non Comp Sci students) where I was (Edinburgh) down to as late as c. 1988.

Edinburgh Uni was famed for its Comp Sci facilities though: it had a 1000 CPU Meiko Transputer Computing Surface in 1988-1989. Unbelievable computing power, like 1000 x 20 MIPS = 20K MIPs! It must have been massive! It was possible to use JANET (The Joint Academic Network) to log into Edinburgh and submit programs to it. We only had a 9 CPU Transputer Rack, enough to do an initial test since single processor parallelism had the same syntax as multiprocessor parallelism.

You either had to fork out for an Amstrad or whatever, which I certainly couldn’t have done — or couldn’t have done along with continuing to eat and stay warm and dry in Newington — or rely on pen and ink or a typewriter. Most with whom I rubbed shoulders just used pen and ink In those days.

Wow, it must have been like going back to the dark ages (which is an anachronism, not as dark as people thought)! At UEA I had a Sinclair QL since 1986 & used that for my dissertation. It was a bit scary though, because there was only room for 3 to 4 pages in RAM so I had to use several micro drive tape files & micro drive cartridges weren't very reliable. I guess you're referring to an Amstrad PCW8256 or PCW8512 rather than @fergycool 's CPC464. Those machines were popular!

By around 1990 <snip> nearly every tertiary educational institution <snip> providing IT skills to the great unwashed, alongside teaching them <snip> By 1991 I was teaching <snip> use of a ‘word processor’ was mandatory <snip> ‘transferable skills’ <snip> funding model <snip> I’d say about 1989 was the pivot point In UK higher education.

Sounds about right. The great IT era where kids & students learned skills that would be outdated by the time they left school, and programming was largely forgotten!

<snip> shouldn’t discredit the typewriter <snip [slowly]> re-writing a whole page often produces better prose than the disjointed product that comes of repeatedly editing the same jumble of words on a screen.

I shall remember! I have an electronic typewriter as it happens!

<snip> the scourge of the footnote, use of which has multiplied to nauseating levels like some sort of computer virus in most academic prose of the past 40 years — most of said usage being unnecessary, really. I think academics ought to be required to read PG Wodehouse (late in life) on overuse of the footnote; it is a hilarious corrective.

LOL!

Really great to read about your experiences! How did you get into Macs?

 

[beachycove]

I was assigned an SE for use in the office in my first academic post (91-2). Macs were used in my field because of WorldScript, mainly. By that time at home, mind, I had been using a cheap PC/XT clone.

I much preferred the Mac, though that SE was slow. A colleage had what we thought was a crazy fast IIci, and the Chair a Classic II. At any rate, I had caught the bug.

I am also a Nisus Writer fan. It was a little eccentric but it was also such an intelligently designed tool for longform writing, far superior to everything else available at the time, which in my view often seemed better suited to single page letters and fliers and the like. Having GREP, multiple undos, multiple clipboards, and so on is very useful. The other nice thing about Nisus Writer (up to v.5, at any rate) is that it works well on a 68030 Compact.

 

[fergycool]

Congratulations on getting your 610 up and running! Mine is still refusing to output video

Thanks! I was fairly close to giving up! I was quite happy when I found the break on that leg. Even happier when I booted it up after putting that blob of solder on it and I did not hear the Chimes of Death! At that point I only had the PSU and the speaker attached. I could scarely run fast enough to my office to reassmble it with video output! So keep at it

For OS, it depends on what software you want to run - but I highly recommend 7.1 for 68k macs! It's a little more work to set up than 7.5, but it's super snappy and you can get 7.5.3-like compatibility if you add a couple of extensions.

If you want to run 7.1 on your Quadra 610, you will need System Enabler 040 from this download http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-system-enablers - without it, your machine won't boot!

Extensions worth considering for compatibility, depending on what software you are running:
• Apple Event Manager
• Open Transport
• Thread Manager 2.1
• Macintosh Drag and Drop
• Finder Scripting Extension
• Dragging Enabler

Also, I really recommend these Control Panels:
• TCP/IP - if you're networking
• SetDate - to support current dates
• SuperClock! - if you want the date or time in the menu bar (but does not always properly hide when playing games fullscreen)

It might be worth installing System Picker and then switching between a couple of different versions. I have 7.1, 7.5.3, and 8.1 available in my standard .hda but always end up back on 7.1

Thanks for all that. So far I've got installs (on a Blue SCSI with a largish card) of 7.1, 7.5.3, 7.6 and 8.1. Currently giving 7.5.3 a spin.
I do want networking. I started on this path with getting a G4 Mac Mini on Mac OS9, then I got Netatalk running via Docker to share files, then Netatalk, Timelord, and more (Tashrouter) on a RPi. Then I ran 7.1 via Minivmac, before discovering this forum and realising I really should get a real 68k Mac up and running.