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The Definitive Guide to Connecting your SE/30

Mk.558

Well-known member
<snip>


Fancy. Glad you got it worked out.

Edit: The Guide does not cover SAMBA because that's not really a Mac specific protocol that can be worked about with the older machines we're focused on, so I can't include it in the Guide. I like how you got it working though, op success!

 
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Von

Well-known member
Fancy. Glad you got it worked out.

Edit: The Guide does not cover SAMBA because that's not really a Mac specific protocol that can be worked about with the older machines we're focused on, so I can't include it in the Guide. I like how you got it working though, op success!
Makes sense.

If I were a judge at the InterWebs Olympics, I'd give that article a 10.  It is one of the best infonuggets I have come across.

 

SE30_Neal

Well-known member
I never managed to get my se/30 to share with my OS 10.3.9 iMac rev b without using a bridge machine. I used a os8.6 5200cd which managed to see both my se/30 and imac although cool and most useful for large transfers I actually prefer using zip disks between machines its somehow more satisfying if slow lol

 

NathanHill

Active member
Your page is such a great resource.

I really appreciate the benchmarking info around file transfers on the More page, because I am waffling around on options to connect my SE/30 (currently without an ethernet card) for file sharing and/or internet.

Do I spring at least for an ethernet card or the SCSI/ethernet kinds of options? Looks like $100 if not more if I am patient.

Do I stick with my current setup of a direct connection via AppleTalk to a Color Classic or use the Classic or a PowerMac 5215CD as a bridge? Very slow but... free.

So, thanks! You give me more to read and think about.

 
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Mk.558

Well-known member
Of course.

I would recommend an Ethernet PDS card. You can try looking for IIsi cards, they're the same bus and type. If I remember right you can also try checking some mailing lists. Ask around -- the 030 PDS cards are around, although eBay is a bit barren on them at the moment. I'd prefer Farallon cards, they usually have built-in RJ45 jacks, so you won't need an AUI - RJ45 adapter.

In other news I've thought about doing another semi-minor update: by which all external links will link to local backup copies of the webpages, aside from download centers like Apple's Older Software List. The only issue of note that has been pointed out is that "AFP Bridge" is not only inaccurate, it's confusing. Other than that I've not heard about about any desired additions, corrections or modifications.

 

rieSha.

Well-known member
Crutch,
Whenever you are at the SE/30: are you able to choose a .AIF file on the SE/30, transfer it to the Mojave computer, then send it back to the SE/30 and still be able to play it?
I might perhaps just have a bad FTP configuration.


No need for binhexing (this is an ASCII wrapper that’s meant for email transport of Mac binary files, as email isn’t binary safe), "Macbinary" is enough and saves you ~30% transfer time, as it is efficient. You can do this on the macOS commandline, too "macbinary".

If Macbinary files are destroyed during FTP transport, check whether you have enabled "binary transfer mode" in your FTP client. Some default to ASCII, which is nearly never useful.

I transfer quite a bunch of stuff backward and forward the SE/30 and it doesn’t destroy data.

 

Crutch

Well-known member
(Waking up sleeping thread) great point. I knew macbinary would work but didn’t know I could do it from the command line without bringing up MiniVMac. Thanks! Good tip. 

 
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MichaelLAX

Active member
Greetings comrades,

Originally the Guide was written here, but it has grown far beyond its original proportions and thus requires me to host it off site for both post limitations and the need for regular updates. You can find it at the link here:

http://www.applefool.com/se30/

Good day!
Not sure how to reach you, otherwise; but in the Guide the link is broken in this sentence:

(This explains this feat written here, it's probably just in the background.)
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Not sure how to reach you, otherwise; but in the Guide the link is broken in this sentence:

(This explains this feat written here, it's probably just in the background.)


The link was fine almost 10 years ago, but many websites have changed/gone offline.

In version 4.0 of the Guide, should be sometime next year, all references will be archived locally, so if you click a URL, it will be a backup copy. A huge host of updates is planned.
 

MichaelLAX

Active member

The link was fine almost 10 years ago, but many websites have changed/gone offline.

In version 4.0 of the Guide, should be sometime next year, all references will be archived locally, so if you click a URL, it will be a backup copy. A huge host of updates is planned.
I hope "sometime next year" is closer to January 2024 and not December!

Thank you for all your work and be sure to change the current Guide which claims it to be the "final" version.

Also, since I am trying to get Mac OS 7.5.3 with ASC 3.7.4 and OT 1.3 to talk to OS X Tiger 10.4; I am unclear at the different between addition ShareWay or SharePoints to OS X Tiger 10.4 to get AppleTalk to work again with my SE/30. If you have some pointers now, I would appreciate them.
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Yeah it was meant to be final as I didn't want to work on it anymore, however as the list of updates needed grew it became too long to ignore.

I did however, prep a version 4.0 "Major Update" title image, and version 4.1 "Final Update" in case I found a few more errors or discoveries worth mentioning. Beyond that I have zero plans for updating.


It's all there. You don't need SharePoints or ShareWay IP for it. It works right out of the box, the OS X Panther and Tiger section tells you what you need to do. The only changes to the Chart pending are for 7.1 (it will work with Tiger, but you don't use the Installer the same way, and has an issue with volume size reporting), and AppleShare File Server 1.1.
 
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MichaelLAX

Active member
Thank you for your continued work on this very important and helpful chart!

I can't seem to get it to work; can you review my progress noted in this thread, and let me know what mistake I am making?
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
I think I can help you with this.

  • Mac OS X 10.2.8 is the last (technically and correctly) to support old machines via AppleTalk completely, both ends: it can act as a server or as a client machine.
  • Mac OS X 10.3.9 can technically mount a System 7.1 server, for reasons I am not completely aware of. (1) Otherwise it cannot act as a server for AppleTalk traffic, unless it's for a printer.
  • Mac OS X 10.4.11 has no ability to mount or serve an older machine, unless it's a printer.
  • Otherwise, the only way a Mac OS X 10.3+ machine can be accessed from a 7.5.3 box is with AFP over TCP/IP.
  • The LocalTalk Bridge software cannot route AFP over TCP/IP or TCP/IP or UDP traffic. To do this, you would have to use something like IPNetRouter, which doesn't support AFP over TCP/IP traffic. But it can handle FTP. There is no such thing as LaserTalk :)
  • If I understand this correctly, the "powerbook version of the iPrint" is not a iPrint model, but the Farallon Mac/PB adapter aka Farallon EtherWave Printer Adapter. I wrote a section on that device and that will get updated too, as I've tinkered with it a bit more. Can be unreliable.
  • The reason why the Farallon iPrint adapter and LocalTalk Bridge fail is because they cannot pass AFP over TCP/IP traffic, and Mac OS X can only talk AppleTalk, if it's not printer, by using AFP over TCP/IP.
  • It's additions and modifications are not annodated by date
    It can't be reasonably done that way without completely rewriting it. If I remember correctly, the last time I updated it was in 2017-2018 maybe?
  • Using ShareWay IP can work, but I have heard that it can be a serious drain on computer performance.
  • The fastest, most reliable option is to source a Ethernet 030 PDS card. They've gone up in price. I have a spare that I can be readily convinced to part with for a "discounted sum", it doesn't have 10BASE-T jacks so it will come with a AUI adapter. AUI adapters compatible with the Macintosh form factor has gotten increasingly difficult to find unless you use a DB15 M-F cable or an AUI drop cable.
  • The second best option is to use the PowerBook as a bridge machine using IPNetRouter with FTP. I won't recommend this unless it's a last resort: you're limited to 230400bps (20KiB/sec tops).
  • The third best option is to use a fake PPP dialup service and FTP.
  • I have no experience with Mac OS X Server. It might be the same, but I can't verify anything concerning that. I'd have to get some kind of G3 box that can natively boot 10.1 and 10.2 and go up from there.

Internal PowerBook 1400 ethernet thing? Now I'm curious. Is it not a Farallon EtherMac PC card, a PCMCIA ethernet card with a dongle connector?


1) Chasing down the method to do this, with the only information that it was possible from a YouTube video, and whose author informed me he didn't know how it was done, was not an easy task.
 
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MichaelLAX

Active member
Wonderful information; thank you, although I am not sure I can then achieve my goal: to get my SE/30 to "talk" to my MacMini2,1 using Tiger in either or both directions.

My limitations:

SE/30: I can upgrade to 7.5.5 if necessary, but currently 7.5.3

MacMini2,1: Years ago I partitioned it with Snow Leopard 10.6.8 in one partition and OS X Tiger Server in the other and it is very stable, so I do not want to change it now.

Bridges:

I have a Farallon iPrint that I purchased off eBay a few years ago. It also allows my SE/30 to "see" my MacMini2,1 in the Chooser, but not connect. I am not sure which of the two versions I have and if you have information on this determination let me know.

I also have a Powerbook 1400 and YES it does have an internal port to the motherboard that allows for the somewhat rare Farallon Ethernet RJ-45 board to be installed. I have one that came installed and it also allows the SE/30 to "see" MacMini2,1 in its Chooser when connected with the Apple LocalTalk Bridge software installed. And YES: it is not a PCMCIA card and both slots are available. In one of my PB1400 eBay purchases, I did get an Ethernet PCMCIA card, but no dongle.

So to recap: my only success, short of installing Ethernet into my SE/30 is to install IPNetRouter and copy over at a reduced slow rate?

The goal is to avoid Sneakernet, once I move legacy Mac software from first my 2020 M1 Mac Mini from the Internet over WiFi to the Mac2,1 with Tiger on WiFi and then to puddle jump to the SE/30.

Am I allowed to quote your updated information from here to my Applefritter thread? Perhaps the best way is to link that thread to this one...

And my comment about dated annotations was more about the complete update of your Classic Mac Networking article, although now I see you do have a Version number, but still no date at the beginning.

Want to trade an SE/30 Ethernet PDS card for another Farallon PB1400 internal Ethernet card that I have? I do have a Farallon Etherwave AAUI that I use to use on my Laserwriter IIg. Will your card connect to this?

Thank you again!
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Here's what I would do.

Get an Ethernet 030 PDS card for the SE/30. They're faster than any other option for file transfers.

Use a build of Basilisk II that supports AppleTalk. Or, Sheepsaver. Use it on your M1 Mac to both serve files/act as a client for the SE/30. I don't know how that will work with WiFi.
 

MichaelLAX

Active member
Here's what I would do.

Get an Ethernet 030 PDS card for the SE/30. They're faster than any other option for file transfers.
Fastest speed is not my goal.

You are saying I can communicate directly between the SE/30 and my M1 Mac Mini once I install an ethernet PDS card in my SE/30 (and avoid the puddle jumping step of my OS X Tiger Mac Mini2,1)???
 

MichaelLAX

Active member
Updated question: My fear is that I will go to the time effort and cost of getting and installing an EtherNet PDS card and still my SE/30 will not communicate with my MacMini2,1 running Tiger or any other more modern Mac.
 

MichaelLAX

Active member
Here's what I would do.

Use a build of Basilisk II that supports AppleTalk. Or, Sheepsaver. Use it on your M1 Mac to both serve files/act as a client for the SE/30. I don't know how that will work with WiFi.
Unfortunately without WiFi, I would have a long ethernet cable running across my living room to dining room floor!
 

Mk.558

Well-known member
The Ethernet card is still the best overall option. Of the alternatives, you have serial (the Mac/PB adapter is the only viable one, and it's flaky, a Raspberry Pi working as an Ethernet bridge, or something similar) or SCSI (via an Ethernet - SCSI adapter, or a BlueSCSI with WiFi, some people have had issues with it, some have not). Almost every other option lacks the convenience of Ethernet PDS cards, which is why they were the most popular card for the SE/30 throughout its life. Ethernet will work with AFP for the Tiger machine. (Speaking of that, I wonder how my Tiger Hackintosh "Don't ask too many questions" VM build I found works with AFP...)

It will connect to it, FTP will work with just about anything from 2024 all the way back to the 1970s whenever FTP came out. For AFP, the Basilisk II option or something like macipgw which can run inside a virtual machine.

If you use WiFi, you'll have to get an appropriate device that can forward AFP data correctly. See here. FTP will work over WiFi.
 
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